Proof for the Afterlife: John Burke on NDEs, Heaven, and Hell (Full Episode) John Giftah

0:01 Speaker 1: Do you ever look around and think, Wow, the world

0:05 Speaker 1: is a crazy place and it just seems to get

0:08 Speaker 1: crazier and crazier. Ease your mind and take a break.

0:13 Speaker 1: This is Fuel for the Soul with John GIFTA. We're

0:17 Speaker 1: a hub for inspirational Christian sermons, practical keys for Christian living,

0:23 Speaker 1: and Christian discussions and interviews. You'll be inspired to live

0:27 Speaker 1: the life that you were created for. Your host is

0:30 Speaker 1: a top ranking podcaster, best selling author, world record holder,

0:35 Speaker 1: aerospace engineer, life coach, evangelist and founder of John GIFTA International.

0:41 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fuel for the Soul with John GIFTA.

0:49 Speaker 2: Hey, God, Vichuel, it has a joy for me to

0:51 Speaker 2: be with all of you today. Thank you so much

0:53 Speaker 2: for dropping by. I have a very special special session

0:56 Speaker 2: today and you'll be a pastor John Bug all the

1:00 Speaker 2: way from the United States of America who's joining with us.

1:03 Speaker 2: And some of you might have already heard about him,

1:05 Speaker 2: seen him, and you know, he's been a great voice

1:09 Speaker 2: and he's been such a blessing in my life. I'm

1:11 Speaker 2: going to talk about it in just a minute. He's

1:14 Speaker 2: not only a best selling author, including a New York

1:16 Speaker 2: Times best selling book which just came out imagine the

1:20 Speaker 2: God of Heaven, and he's been an important voice, especially

1:24 Speaker 2: in near that experiences people who have literally died and

1:28 Speaker 2: seen heaven or hell and come back if you didn't

1:31 Speaker 2: know what that is all about.

1:32 Speaker 3: And he also has.

1:34 Speaker 2: A growing podcast and YouTube channels through which he shares

1:38 Speaker 2: these messages. And the best thing about him is that

1:41 Speaker 2: not only do we share the same first name, John,

1:44 Speaker 2: both of us had the same first name, but both

1:46 Speaker 2: of us are engineers.

1:48 Speaker 3: I'm an aerospace.

1:49 Speaker 2: Engineer and he's also an engineer and minister of the gospel.

1:52 Speaker 2: So it's so awesome to have you with us. Fastor,

1:55 Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining in.

1:57 Speaker 4: Hey John, I'm so glad that you invited me because

2:01 Speaker 4: I love India, have been there many times and we

2:05 Speaker 4: have very good friends in India.

2:08 Speaker 2: That's so good. Can't wait to have you here in

2:11 Speaker 2: person again. Pastor, thank you so much. And I just

2:13 Speaker 2: want to quickly start off by sharing a quick testimony

2:16 Speaker 2: on how I came to know you in the first place.

2:19 Speaker 2: The Lord uses me a lot in the aspect of,

2:22 Speaker 2: you know, the political situation in the United States of

2:25 Speaker 2: America to intercede. Have had a lot of encounters like

2:29 Speaker 2: there were moments when the Lord took me in the

2:31 Speaker 2: spirit into the White House to pray over President Trump,

2:35 Speaker 2: and you know, he let me lay my hand on

2:38 Speaker 2: his right shoulder and pray. And two days later I

2:42 Speaker 2: came to know there was another profits in India who

2:45 Speaker 2: had the same encounter on the same day as I did.

2:48 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of these kind of encounters where

2:51 Speaker 2: the Lord was clearly leading me in the prophetic to intercede.

2:54 Speaker 2: Even recently we had the elections in the US and

2:57 Speaker 2: the Lord led me to intercede, raised and says a spray.

3:01 Speaker 2: And because of that, I came to know of something

3:04 Speaker 2: that I was actually dealing with for the past a

3:08 Speaker 2: couple of months where I would suddenly wake up in

3:11 Speaker 2: the night and I would have panic attacks. I'm just

3:14 Speaker 2: sharing this because this is a personal testimony where even

3:18 Speaker 2: though I'm a minister of the Gospel, I've seen glimpses

3:20 Speaker 2: of Hell. I've had a lot of encounters and miracles

3:24 Speaker 2: out of the blue that were these attacks, panic attacks

3:27 Speaker 2: in the middle of the night where I would wake

3:29 Speaker 2: up with that fear of like what if everything I

3:32 Speaker 2: believed was wrong? What if Christianity was not the truth?

3:34 Speaker 2: Like people in apologetics would just say that you know what,

3:38 Speaker 2: this is the truth because I'm a Christian, or somebody

3:41 Speaker 2: else would say the same about Islamic apologists. But that

3:45 Speaker 2: was the moment when I was having these panic attacks

3:48 Speaker 2: and I was like, God, if I tell.

3:50 Speaker 3: Somebody else, they'll say you're not fit to be a preacher.

3:53 Speaker 2: But that was when I was like, God, I want

3:56 Speaker 2: you to reveal yourself to me because I know that

3:59 Speaker 2: my heart is in the right place. I want to

4:01 Speaker 2: minister to you through you. And while I was doing that,

4:06 Speaker 2: and I was following the situation about the US political scene,

4:10 Speaker 2: I came to know about your interview with Sean Ryan.

4:14 Speaker 2: And I don't usually watch such long episodes. That was

4:19 Speaker 2: a four hour long episode. And I'm telling you a pastor,

4:23 Speaker 2: God is my witness. Ever since then, I didn't have

4:26 Speaker 2: any panic attacks. I've been completely free, like I knew

4:30 Speaker 2: without a shadow of doubt that what I preach is

4:33 Speaker 2: not theory or I've been more convincing in the preaching

4:37 Speaker 2: of the gospel now talking about heaven and Hell, and

4:40 Speaker 2: now more people are getting saved through my ministry now

4:44 Speaker 2: because I've been more fervent in preaching about Heaven and Hell.

4:47 Speaker 2: So that's the way what you shared in that interview

4:52 Speaker 2: really changed my life. And that's why I was determined

4:56 Speaker 2: to have you here because I believe there are so

4:58 Speaker 2: many people who have these quests since or they may

5:01 Speaker 2: even have these kind of panic attacks. So I'm so

5:04 Speaker 2: glad that your ministry and your words helped me, and

5:09 Speaker 2: it is helping so many people today. And I believe that,

5:12 Speaker 2: you know, as you continue to walk in this calling,

5:15 Speaker 2: it's going to be a blessing to more people. I

5:18 Speaker 2: think you also have a story of being an agnostic

5:21 Speaker 2: where you doubt it, you know, if you were on

5:23 Speaker 2: the right track. Can you just speak a word to

5:26 Speaker 2: somebody who may be in a similar spot, maybe they're

5:29 Speaker 2: anagnostic or they may be having these kind of doubts

5:32 Speaker 2: like am I really following the right path? Or is

5:35 Speaker 2: this you know, just because I'm a Christian I believe

5:38 Speaker 2: in Christianity.

5:40 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, first of all, what a blessing to hear that. John. Wow,

5:45 Speaker 4: you know, sometimes you just you just never know, right.

5:50 Speaker 4: Sean and I have become friends, and you know, he

5:53 Speaker 4: just became a follower of Jesus, Yes, you know, and

5:59 Speaker 4: just the way the Lord is connecting us all over

6:03 Speaker 4: the world. And that is why I'm doing what I'm

6:06 Speaker 4: doing now. But I didn't start there, like you said.

6:09 Speaker 4: And I'll just give you a little background. So I

6:13 Speaker 4: was trained as an engineer. I worked in engineering for

6:16 Speaker 4: a number of years. I was, but my mind has

6:22 Speaker 4: always been very analytical, you know. So you know, I

6:25 Speaker 4: grew up in the United States hearing about Jesus, just

6:29 Speaker 4: like if you grew up in India, you grow up

6:31 Speaker 4: hearing about Vishnu or Kali or Durga or you know,

6:36 Speaker 4: you know, many many others. Right, But I always ask

6:40 Speaker 4: a question, well, how do you know? You know? How

6:43 Speaker 4: do you know Jesus is the son of God? How

6:45 Speaker 4: do you know there is a God? I mean? And

6:48 Speaker 4: I would ask people, and I wasn't getting good answers.

6:52 Speaker 4: I wouldn't get much of any answers, I think because

6:55 Speaker 4: not enough people really search, really seek. And I concluded,

7:01 Speaker 4: you know, you just can't know. And I was an agnostic,

7:05 Speaker 4: so I believe Jesus was probably just a legend, you know,

7:09 Speaker 4: maybe a good teacher. But the whole son of God

7:12 Speaker 4: thing is just like mythology and that God. You just

7:16 Speaker 4: can't know if there's a god or not. And then

7:19 Speaker 4: my dad was dying of cancer and someone gave him

7:23 Speaker 4: This is almost four decades ago, and someone gave him

7:28 Speaker 4: the very first research on what is now called near

7:32 Speaker 4: death experiences. And this is when someone clinically dies so

7:36 Speaker 4: literally their heart stops beating, they have no brain waves,

7:40 Speaker 4: and yet either modern medicine or just miracle resuscitates them.

7:45 Speaker 4: They come back, and they come back talking about being

7:51 Speaker 4: more alive than they've ever felt before, in a place

7:54 Speaker 4: more real than this has ever been, and many times

7:58 Speaker 4: in the presence of this God of light and love

8:02 Speaker 4: that they never wanted to leave his presence. And I

8:05 Speaker 4: see this book on his bedside table and I start

8:08 Speaker 4: reading it and I couldn't put it down. And by

8:11 Speaker 4: the end of the night, I'd finished the book, and

8:14 Speaker 4: I said, oh, my gosh, maybe this is the evidence

8:18 Speaker 4: I've been looking for that this is real. And because

8:24 Speaker 4: so many of them were talking about this God of

8:27 Speaker 4: light and love, and many of them saw Jesus and

8:31 Speaker 4: knew he was Jesus, like he was this man of light,

8:37 Speaker 4: brighter than the sun. And because of that, it opened

8:40 Speaker 4: my mind to consider and I started to read the Bible,

8:45 Speaker 4: and I ended up coming to faith in Christ a

8:51 Speaker 4: year after that or so, but I was always still

8:55 Speaker 4: wanting to understand, Okay, well, what are these near death

8:57 Speaker 4: experiences and how do they relate to the Bible, and

9:01 Speaker 4: how do they relate to the other world's religions. So

9:05 Speaker 4: over the last I mean, it's been thirty five forty

9:10 Speaker 4: years that I've studied close to fifteen hundred, one thousand,

9:14 Speaker 4: five hundred near death experiences. I've interviewed people from all

9:18 Speaker 4: over the globe. I ended up leaving my career in

9:21 Speaker 4: engineering because of what I was learning as I was

9:24 Speaker 4: studying the Bible and studying these and how it fits together.

9:29 Speaker 4: And I ended up leaving my career in engineering to

9:33 Speaker 4: go into ministry. And my wife and I started a church,

9:38 Speaker 4: Gateway Church twenty seven years ago, four skeptics so and

9:43 Speaker 4: we've seen people from every religious background come and explore faith,

9:49 Speaker 4: and when they're open to really seeking, they find And

9:54 Speaker 4: so in twenty fifteen, I wrote a book, like you said,

9:57 Speaker 4: called Imagine Heaven. In Imagine Heaven, what I was doing

10:02 Speaker 4: is I was taking these at that time, over over

10:06 Speaker 4: a thousand near death experiences i'd studied, and you know,

10:09 Speaker 4: the way my engineering mind works, I would I would

10:13 Speaker 4: hear another or interview someone and I'd go like, oh,

10:16 Speaker 4: I heard that over here, and I heard that over

10:17 Speaker 4: and I started to map the commonalities and then look

10:21 Speaker 4: at how how has that been revealed through the Bible

10:24 Speaker 4: throughout history. And I found about forty commonalities of what

10:29 Speaker 4: people having these near death experiences described in the Life

10:34 Speaker 4: to Come. And this is on every continent. And so

10:39 Speaker 4: I was writing about those commonalities and what the life

10:43 Speaker 4: to come is going to be like. That's Imagine Heaven.

10:45 Speaker 4: And then recently I actually passed the baton of leadership

10:52 Speaker 4: of the church that my wife and I founded, and

10:56 Speaker 4: I wrote, I wrote a new book called Imagine the

10:58 Speaker 4: God of Heaven. And that's where I interviewed seventy new

11:02 Speaker 4: people from all over the planet in India. You know,

11:07 Speaker 4: on every continent literally except Antarctica, there are no penguins

11:12 Speaker 4: having near death experiences, but every other continent. And I'm

11:17 Speaker 4: showing that the God they are encountering in their near

11:22 Speaker 4: death experience is the God of history who revealed himself

11:25 Speaker 4: through the Jewish prophets and ultimately through Jesus. And interestingly,

11:32 Speaker 4: you know, I trace how in the Old Testament all

11:35 Speaker 4: the way back, you know, four thousand years ago, before

11:40 Speaker 4: the founding of any of the of the world's religion

11:43 Speaker 4: sacred scriptures. God says that this isn't recorded in Genesis twelve.

11:49 Speaker 4: He raises up two people, Abraham and Sarah, and he says,

11:53 Speaker 4: I'm going to make you into a nation, and through you,

11:57 Speaker 4: I'm going to bless all nations. And that is a

12:01 Speaker 4: common theme you see throughout the Jewish prophets. What Jesus said.

12:06 Speaker 4: The last thing he said after his death on the

12:10 Speaker 4: cross and his resurrection, he said, tell this message to

12:14 Speaker 4: all the nations. There's forgiveness offered in my name. And

12:19 Speaker 4: then the very last book of the Bible, John, one

12:21 Speaker 4: of jesus disciples, who was taken in a vision to heaven,

12:26 Speaker 4: sees people from every every nation, tribe, language, and people group.

12:33 Speaker 4: They're around the throne of God, worshiping God. So if

12:38 Speaker 4: you look at and I have now studied and read

12:42 Speaker 4: a good portion of much of the world's sacred scriptures,

12:46 Speaker 4: in the world's religions, you won't find another deity who

12:53 Speaker 4: is consistently speaking to all people, to all nations. This

13:00 Speaker 4: is the God of all nations, and that's what near

13:02 Speaker 4: death experiencers are revealing. That's what they're testifying to, that

13:07 Speaker 4: that they are experiencing, not the God necessarily that that

13:11 Speaker 4: they would have expected, but this God of light and love,

13:17 Speaker 4: who is personal, knows them intimately, and so I'm tracing

13:22 Speaker 4: that in imagine the God of heaven.

13:25 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, it's.

13:27 Speaker 2: So good, like because like you said about you know

13:31 Speaker 2: how God can X. First of all, it's amazing because

13:34 Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard of someone called Megan Kelly.

13:38 Speaker 4: I was on her show.

13:40 Speaker 3: You were on her show too? Yeah, okay, okay, yeah.

13:44 Speaker 4: I just I just sent I just sent her my

13:47 Speaker 4: new book.

13:51 Speaker 2: So I was following her and it was Sean Dryana

13:55 Speaker 2: was interviewing her and told her to take out your

13:58 Speaker 2: videos and because she was doubting or something like that.

14:02 Speaker 2: And then that see see the way God connects right

14:06 Speaker 2: like you just shared about how you know God has

14:10 Speaker 2: been so consistently speaking and how God is connecting. It's

14:13 Speaker 2: it's amazing because guys, even if you do have doubts

14:17 Speaker 2: or questions, don't feel bad on yourself. You may go

14:20 Speaker 2: through seasons like that. Like the reason I wanted Pastor

14:24 Speaker 2: to share his stories, I want you to understand that

14:26 Speaker 2: you know, there is a lot of evidence. There is

14:29 Speaker 2: a lot of proof, but don't even if you go

14:31 Speaker 2: through questions and doubts, don't feel bad on yourself. You know,

14:36 Speaker 2: you can be a minister, you can be a Christian,

14:38 Speaker 2: you can go to church, but you can still go

14:40 Speaker 2: through questions and doubts. So that's why you're here, and

14:44 Speaker 2: that's why I want you to stay tuned. There's one

14:46 Speaker 2: aspect in the Chena and interview where you spoke about

14:49 Speaker 2: you just shed light about you know, there was some

14:54 Speaker 2: kind of study made on people where if you put

14:58 Speaker 2: some kind of pressure on certain parts of the reign,

15:01 Speaker 2: you know, I think the soul of the spirit says,

15:04 Speaker 2: you know, I want to come out.

15:05 Speaker 3: Of the body. You know, there's like some kind of study.

15:09 Speaker 2: Do you have more evidence or more information on that,

15:13 Speaker 2: like to prove to people that you know what life

15:15 Speaker 2: after death is actually true?

15:18 Speaker 4: Yes? Yeah. And in the new book in Imagine the

15:21 Speaker 4: God of Heaven, I mean I have I have the

15:24 Speaker 4: evidence that convinced me in both books and Imagine Heaven.

15:28 Speaker 4: And by the way, in the very first podcast that

15:31 Speaker 4: I do on the Imagine Heaven it's called Imagine Heaven Podcast,

15:35 Speaker 4: with John Burke. But I let you hear from these people,

15:39 Speaker 4: and I'm trying to show the reasons that I became

15:44 Speaker 4: convinced that there was life after death and that it

15:49 Speaker 4: points to the God who revealed himself through Jesus. That's

15:54 Speaker 4: why that's being testified to from people having near death

15:56 Speaker 4: experiences all around the globe. So I'll give you I

16:01 Speaker 4: put ten points of evidence in imagining the God of Heaven,

16:05 Speaker 4: but I'll just give you three of them and you

16:07 Speaker 4: can you can see this in my first podcast. But

16:10 Speaker 4: the first one is verifiable observations. So this, this is

16:16 Speaker 4: what got my attention when I was still a skeptical engineer,

16:18 Speaker 4: and I was like, Okay, how do I know these

16:22 Speaker 4: aren't just these near death experiences aren't just hallucinations, or

16:26 Speaker 4: maybe it's a trick the brain's plane. You knows, as

16:29 Speaker 4: you're dying, it's flooding with neurotrans you know, neurotransmitters, the

16:34 Speaker 4: chemicals that flood your brain. Maybe it's just happening in

16:36 Speaker 4: the brain, but that does not you can't explain it

16:41 Speaker 4: that way when you look at the evidence. And the

16:46 Speaker 4: first one is when people die clinically, they say that

16:51 Speaker 4: they leave their physical body, but they still have a body,

16:56 Speaker 4: they have a spiritual body. And they say, you know,

16:59 Speaker 4: it's it's not a body of just five senses. It's

17:03 Speaker 4: more like they have fifty senses. And so what you know,

17:07 Speaker 4: what I explain is the best way to understand it

17:11 Speaker 4: is imagine, is that I think these people are moving

17:15 Speaker 4: into dimensional realms that are all around us already, but

17:20 Speaker 4: we can't see because we're limited to three finite dimensions

17:24 Speaker 4: of space and one dimension of time. Right, that's our

17:27 Speaker 4: that's humanity. But imagine if we're living on a flat

17:32 Speaker 4: black and white painting in your room, right, and death

17:37 Speaker 4: means separation. So at death, then this two dimensional self,

17:42 Speaker 4: because remember the self can go up and down and

17:45 Speaker 4: side to side and two dimensions, but there is no

17:48 Speaker 4: in or out. There's no third dimension in your world

17:52 Speaker 4: if you live in a two dimensional world, So death

17:55 Speaker 4: means separation. So imagine at death, your flat self is

17:59 Speaker 4: peel off that flat painting and suddenly brought out into

18:03 Speaker 4: this room of three dimensions, and you're experiencing three dimensions.

18:07 Speaker 4: And you can also look back and see your old

18:11 Speaker 4: world because it's contained within this greater dimensional reality. So

18:17 Speaker 4: you would be able to see and describe what is

18:20 Speaker 4: going on there, but you're also experiencing three dimensions and color.

18:23 Speaker 4: And then imagine getting resuscitated, press back into your flat world,

18:28 Speaker 4: and now you have to describe three dimensions and color,

18:33 Speaker 4: but in two dimensional black and white terms. Got And

18:37 Speaker 4: that's what as I've interviewed, you know, over a thousand people,

18:42 Speaker 4: they've said, oh, that's exactly what it's like. There aren't

18:46 Speaker 4: words in our language. But it also explains why people

18:50 Speaker 4: have verifiable observations. So they say they're out of their body,

18:54 Speaker 4: but many times they're still in the room where their

18:57 Speaker 4: resuscitation is happening. And as a result, when they're brought back,

19:03 Speaker 4: even though they might have been dead twenty five minutes.

19:06 Speaker 4: One guy that I interviewed, he has the hospital records.

19:10 Speaker 4: He was dead an hour and forty five minutes. A

19:13 Speaker 4: spine surgeon I interviewed who's kayak got pinned under a waterfall.

19:20 Speaker 4: They couldn't find her body for thirty minutes, you know,

19:23 Speaker 4: so she was dead thirty minutes. And yet they're able

19:27 Speaker 4: to watch what's happening in their resuscitation, so when they

19:31 Speaker 4: come back they can describe and verify things that were

19:37 Speaker 4: actually happening in our realm, in our reality, and this

19:41 Speaker 4: grounds these experiences in our realm. I'll give you one example,

19:46 Speaker 4: a guy in Holland. So many doctors, medical doctors, cardiologists,

19:52 Speaker 4: on coologists who were skeptical just like I was as

19:56 Speaker 4: a skeptical engineer, have been convinced there is life after

20:00 Speaker 4: death when they have interviewed their patients. So one of

20:03 Speaker 4: them is a doctor Pym van Lommel. He's a cardiologist

20:08 Speaker 4: in Holland. And there was a man brought into a

20:12 Speaker 4: Dutch hospital that he was at and the man had

20:18 Speaker 4: been found in a park with no heartbeat, and it

20:21 Speaker 4: took thirty minutes to get him to the hospital, so

20:24 Speaker 4: he'd been dead at least thirty minutes. They were going

20:28 Speaker 4: to shock his heart and they had to intubate him,

20:31 Speaker 4: and the nurse found dentures in his mouth, so she

20:34 Speaker 4: took the dentures out, put him in the lower drawer

20:36 Speaker 4: of the crash cart, and then they shocked him, got

20:39 Speaker 4: his heart going, but he never came to He was

20:42 Speaker 4: coma tose the whole time in the er room. They

20:47 Speaker 4: took him to another room and he came out of

20:51 Speaker 4: coma one week later. Okay, so when he comes out

20:54 Speaker 4: of coma, he's complaining, you lost my dentures, You lost

20:57 Speaker 4: my DNTs. Where are my dentures? And then he he's

21:00 Speaker 4: a nurse, and he says, that nurse knows where my

21:03 Speaker 4: dentures are. And then he describes how he was up

21:07 Speaker 4: above his body. He described every doctor and nurse in

21:12 Speaker 4: the er and what they were doing, and how he

21:15 Speaker 4: was trying to get their attention and they couldn't hear him.

21:18 Speaker 4: And that nurse that took his dentures and put him

21:20 Speaker 4: in the lower drawer of that cart with all the

21:22 Speaker 4: bottles on it, and they went and sure enough, that's

21:25 Speaker 4: where they found his dentures. Now, things that connect what

21:31 Speaker 4: these people are saying to real life, verifiable observations have

21:38 Speaker 4: actually been studied. So doctor jan Holden did a study

21:44 Speaker 4: of close to one hundred patients having a near death experience,

21:49 Speaker 4: and each one may make five or ten observations right,

21:52 Speaker 4: and then she was able to check out how accurate

21:56 Speaker 4: their observations from out of their body, how accurate these

21:59 Speaker 4: observations were. She found that ninety six percent of their

22:03 Speaker 4: observations were completely accurate. Another six percent some of their

22:08 Speaker 4: observations might have been a little bit off. Only two

22:12 Speaker 4: percent of the observations, which turned out to be one

22:16 Speaker 4: patient in the study, were inaccurate. So this is, I

22:20 Speaker 4: mean incredible. You can't explain how these people could know

22:25 Speaker 4: things when they had no brain waves. You know, if

22:30 Speaker 4: this has just happened in the brain, what was that.

22:34 Speaker 3: It's not like the setting of a computer.

22:38 Speaker 4: No. No, And what they consistently say is my soul

22:42 Speaker 4: survived my body's physical death. Now that's just one of

22:47 Speaker 4: the reasons. The second, the second reason that I became

22:51 Speaker 4: convinced is that when people blind from birth have a

22:56 Speaker 4: near death experience, they can see and they just seeing

23:01 Speaker 4: and they report the same things that they saw in

23:04 Speaker 4: their near death experience that cited people do. And in

23:09 Speaker 4: this first p podcast episode, I interview Brad Burrows, and

23:15 Speaker 4: he was eight years old. He's been blind from birth,

23:18 Speaker 4: you know. He he died for four minutes when he

23:21 Speaker 4: was eight years old. They resuscitated him. He's still blind today.

23:25 Speaker 4: So he's never had a visual memory. And he talks

23:30 Speaker 4: about this. You can hear him talking about he's never

23:32 Speaker 4: dreamed in pictures. He only dreams in touch and in

23:38 Speaker 4: smell and in sound. But he doesn't dream in pictures.

23:42 Speaker 4: He has no visual pictures. And yet when you hear

23:45 Speaker 4: him describe things like the light of heaven. And I've

23:51 Speaker 4: interviewed other other blind people having near death experiences, and

23:54 Speaker 4: here's what's fascinating, John. They described the light of heaven

23:59 Speaker 4: and they just scribe that, like VICKI this other blind person,

24:02 Speaker 4: and Brad said, you know, the grass and the trees,

24:07 Speaker 4: and the flowers, and the birds and the and even

24:10 Speaker 4: the people. Everything, there was this light that was different

24:14 Speaker 4: than the light of the sun. And this light was love,

24:18 Speaker 4: and this light was life all together, and it was

24:21 Speaker 4: coming out of everything. It was giving life to everything. Well,

24:26 Speaker 4: think about it, a blind person on earth would have

24:29 Speaker 4: heard that light shines on things, not out of everything. Right.

24:34 Speaker 4: And yet the prophet Isaiah riding in seven eighty BC. Okay,

24:40 Speaker 4: so seven eighty BC. This is before the bog of Igita, right,

24:45 Speaker 4: I think that was around five hundred, wasn't it. I remember?

24:51 Speaker 4: Actually the Vedas I know were more like fifteen hundred BC.

24:54 Speaker 4: But he writes that in heaven there is no sun

24:59 Speaker 4: or moon, for the light of God is its light.

25:03 Speaker 4: And then John, one of Jesus' disciples, who was taken

25:07 Speaker 4: to see heaven, writes the Book of Revelation. In Revelation

25:10 Speaker 4: twenty one, he says he notices in the city there's

25:14 Speaker 4: no sun or moon. The glory of God is its light,

25:17 Speaker 4: and the lamb referring to Jesus is its lamp. And

25:20 Speaker 4: the nations will walk, he said in that light. He

25:26 Speaker 4: said that they will walk in that light. Well, that's

25:29 Speaker 4: what blind near death experiencers all around the globe report.

25:35 Speaker 4: And it's the same thing that Indians report having India experience,

25:39 Speaker 4: same thing Australians and chin in China that I reported.

25:46 Speaker 4: So how do you explain that if this is just

25:50 Speaker 4: in the brain, because a blind person would never have

25:54 Speaker 4: visual images of light coming out of everything, and they

25:57 Speaker 4: wouldn't have heard that on Earth. Third reason that convinced

26:01 Speaker 4: me is really what I wrote this new book, Imagine

26:07 Speaker 4: the God of Heaven about. And that's because people from

26:12 Speaker 4: every religious background, every cultural background, having near death experiences,

26:19 Speaker 4: many of them see not only the reality of heaven

26:23 Speaker 4: and the reality of hell, but they also see and

26:26 Speaker 4: experience God. And they experienced this same God of light

26:32 Speaker 4: and love. He's not an impersonal force. He's the most

26:37 Speaker 4: personal loving the love they talk about all of them

26:44 Speaker 4: is something that our word love just doesn't do justice for.

26:48 Speaker 4: They say things like, imagine taking all the love you've

26:53 Speaker 4: ever felt or had for a spouse, from a parent,

26:58 Speaker 4: from a grandparent, for your children, ldren, you know, for

27:02 Speaker 4: you know, your girlfriend and her boyfriend, all of that,

27:05 Speaker 4: put it into one and you have to multiply it

27:08 Speaker 4: by thousands of times. And that doesn't even express the

27:12 Speaker 4: feeling they have in the presence of this God. And

27:17 Speaker 4: what I'm showing in imagine the God of heaven is

27:21 Speaker 4: that they are not experiencing the god or gods they

27:26 Speaker 4: would have expected. So for instance, Rajiev, doctor Rajiev Parti,

27:34 Speaker 4: he grew up in India, he became a medical doctor.

27:39 Speaker 4: He lost all faith in God. God's all that, and

27:43 Speaker 4: he was just interested in money. But he was a

27:46 Speaker 4: very good antithesiologist. In fact, he became the chief aniseesiologist

27:52 Speaker 4: in California's Bakerfield Heart Hospital. He's the highest of his

27:57 Speaker 4: profession in anthesiology. He brought many people back from death

28:02 Speaker 4: and he had heard them talk about these things about

28:05 Speaker 4: these near death experienced commonalities of being out of their body,

28:09 Speaker 4: of traveling through a portal or a tunnel to this

28:13 Speaker 4: place of exquisite beauty, with this light that is otherworldly light,

28:18 Speaker 4: and having this welcoming committee of people who had died

28:22 Speaker 4: before them, and then this presence of this god of

28:25 Speaker 4: light and love. He thought it was all bogus. He thought,

28:29 Speaker 4: there they're psychotic, and he would give them an antipsychotic drug.

28:36 Speaker 4: And then he had a near death experience himself. Now

28:39 Speaker 4: this is wild if you think about it. He had

28:42 Speaker 4: a near death experience. And he told me, he said,

28:47 Speaker 4: you know, I had not I had not become a

28:50 Speaker 4: good person. He said, I saw my patience as a

28:53 Speaker 4: way to make money and and get a bigger house

28:56 Speaker 4: and a nicer car. I didn't treat them well. He

29:00 Speaker 4: had had a very abusive father, and he had started

29:02 Speaker 4: to be abusive, you know, verbally toward his son. He

29:09 Speaker 4: had become addicted to do different opioids because of this

29:14 Speaker 4: chronic problem that ultimately led to his near death experience.

29:20 Speaker 4: But in his experience, he begins in experience of hell,

29:27 Speaker 4: and he describes it just like and by the way,

29:32 Speaker 4: in some studies, twenty three percent of people coming forward

29:37 Speaker 4: reporting near death experiences report hellish near death experiences. So

29:41 Speaker 4: many report heavenly but they also report the reality of

29:46 Speaker 4: this hellish place. Now, he called it naraka. That's the

29:52 Speaker 4: Hindu word for the Hindi word for hell. Right, And

29:57 Speaker 4: he said, you know what is my karma? Why am i?

30:00 Speaker 4: Why am I here? And he heard, you have not

30:02 Speaker 4: been a very loving person. And he told me, he said,

30:06 Speaker 4: I was repenting. I was asking God to forgive me.

30:09 Speaker 4: He said, I realized my sins and I realized I

30:12 Speaker 4: hadn't pursued God. And he said, I was repenting. And

30:15 Speaker 4: then he said, these two angels from the Bible come

30:23 Speaker 4: and rescue him and take him through this tunnel to

30:27 Speaker 4: this place of exquisite beauty. And there in this place

30:32 Speaker 4: he experiences this God of light, he describes, and this

30:36 Speaker 4: is the same as people all around the world, This

30:38 Speaker 4: God of light, brighter than the sun, like a thousand

30:40 Speaker 4: times brighter, and yet not hard to look at, mesmerizing.

30:45 Speaker 4: You just wanted to be in his presence and look

30:48 Speaker 4: at him. And he says, he says to him, I'm

30:54 Speaker 4: going to regieve. I'm going to send you back, but

30:59 Speaker 4: first I want you to understand your life better. And

31:02 Speaker 4: he gives them a life review. Now, a life review

31:05 Speaker 4: is another commonality that people get all around the globe,

31:09 Speaker 4: and because time does not work the same way on

31:12 Speaker 4: the other side. And I'm showing how all these things

31:15 Speaker 4: are biblical. Like in Second Peter three to eight, Peter says,

31:19 Speaker 4: and he's actually quoting one of the Old Testament prophets

31:21 Speaker 4: to the Lord, a day is like a thousand years,

31:24 Speaker 4: and a thousand years is like a day. That's exactly

31:28 Speaker 4: what near death experiencers say. I don't know if it

31:31 Speaker 4: were was minutes or years that I experienced it, because

31:35 Speaker 4: time doesn't work the same on the other side. So

31:37 Speaker 4: they re experience their lives. They see and they experience

31:42 Speaker 4: it all over again. But they experience not only from

31:45 Speaker 4: their own perspective, their own thoughts and feelings and what

31:49 Speaker 4: was happening. They experience the thoughts and feelings of the

31:53 Speaker 4: people they interacted with. And they see how every act

31:57 Speaker 4: of kindness, how it how it affected that person, and

32:02 Speaker 4: how it even rippled through humanity. And also how their

32:05 Speaker 4: mean acts or their you know, unjust acts, how that

32:09 Speaker 4: affected that person and rippled through humanity. It's exactly what

32:13 Speaker 4: Jesus said in Matthew twenty five. He said, one day

32:17 Speaker 4: every single person will stand before the King of the universe.

32:20 Speaker 4: And then he will say, you know, to the unrighteous

32:23 Speaker 4: to my left, to the righteous to my right, you know,

32:27 Speaker 4: And and he'll say to the righteous, he'll say, you know,

32:32 Speaker 4: enter my kingdom. For when I was hungry, you fed me.

32:36 Speaker 4: And when I was naked, you clothed me. And when

32:38 Speaker 4: I was hurting, you visited me. When I was in prison,

32:41 Speaker 4: you came to see me, and all these things. And

32:44 Speaker 4: they'll say, when did we do that for you, Lord?

32:47 Speaker 4: And he'll say, you did it to the.

32:48 Speaker 5: Least, the least of these brothers or sisters, the least

32:53 Speaker 5: deserving person, right, the outcast on the streets.

33:00 Speaker 4: When you did it to one of these, you did

33:02 Speaker 4: it to me. And in these near death experiences in

33:06 Speaker 4: the life review, they see that how they treated others

33:10 Speaker 4: affected the Lord himself. It's wild. So all these things

33:15 Speaker 4: that are biblical they are testifying to. So Rajiev has

33:19 Speaker 4: this near death experience and he comes back and he

33:25 Speaker 4: is seeking and he's saying, who was this God of

33:29 Speaker 4: light and love and such compassion and mercy? I thought

33:33 Speaker 4: he was going to send me back to hell. I

33:35 Speaker 4: saw my sins. I knew that's what I deserved. And

33:39 Speaker 4: yet he gave me such love and such mercy and kindness.

33:44 Speaker 4: And this was not like the Hindu gods I knew.

33:47 Speaker 4: And so he's seeking. And another point in time, his

33:53 Speaker 4: friend Naresh was dying of cancer about a year later,

33:57 Speaker 4: and he's sharing about this god of life and love

34:00 Speaker 4: who had mercy and forgiveness, and he had actually, interestingly,

34:05 Speaker 4: Rajiev had actually ended up going to a church and

34:08 Speaker 4: getting baptized. Now, actually I don't know if it was

34:13 Speaker 4: before or after this event, because what happened is the

34:16 Speaker 4: night Naresh died of cancer, Rajiev wakes up, he is

34:23 Speaker 4: completely awake, and then he sees the heavens open and

34:29 Speaker 4: there is Naresh, with the same god of light and love. Wow.

34:35 Speaker 4: And he asked, Lord, who are you? And he said,

34:40 Speaker 4: Rajiev said to me, out of the light steps a

34:43 Speaker 4: man with shoulder lengked hair and a beard, and this

34:48 Speaker 4: majestic glowing robe who holds out his arms and says,

34:52 Speaker 4: I'm Jesus your savior, and he drops to his knees.

34:58 Speaker 4: And I think it was after that that he he

35:00 Speaker 4: went and was baptized. Now I report on people all

35:09 Speaker 4: across the globe. Another another one who became a good

35:13 Speaker 4: friend of mine from India was Santosh a Karchie. He

35:18 Speaker 4: was also an engineer, and he has and I want

35:21 Speaker 4: to go into the whole the whole thing. You can

35:24 Speaker 4: actually hear Santosh. I interviewed him on my podcast, so

35:28 Speaker 4: you can hear it and see him say it there,

35:31 Speaker 4: and you can also read his full story in Imagine

35:34 Speaker 4: the God of Heaven. But he thought, when I die,

35:39 Speaker 4: it's either just unplugged the computer nothing, or maybe I'll

35:43 Speaker 4: come back as another life form. You know, he grew

35:46 Speaker 4: up in India. That's all he knew. And he said,

35:49 Speaker 4: but that's not what happened. He hears code blue. His

35:53 Speaker 4: heart had stopped. He was he was his heart had

35:57 Speaker 4: stopped for many minutes and he was in a medical

35:59 Speaker 4: induced coma for three days. He said, this brilliant god

36:03 Speaker 4: of light comes to him. He said, I knew this

36:05 Speaker 4: was a divine light, and I fell in love with

36:08 Speaker 4: this divine light because I knew he was for me.

36:12 Speaker 4: Then he takes him to this place and and Santosh

36:19 Speaker 4: describes looking out over what he said, what he called

36:23 Speaker 4: what he described to me as a giant compound. Okay,

36:27 Speaker 4: so I've been to India, so I know, you know

36:30 Speaker 4: it was it was a giant gated compound. Well there,

36:33 Speaker 4: you know, there are many gated you know, complexes or

36:38 Speaker 4: compounds in India, right or at least I've been many

36:42 Speaker 4: times to Hyderabad or Raja Mundri and anyway, they are there,

36:47 Speaker 4: and that's what he was describing. But he said, but

36:49 Speaker 4: thousands of miles in a square shape and just gorgeous inside.

36:55 Speaker 4: He said, I was up above looking into it, and

36:59 Speaker 4: and there were gardens and fountains and beautiful landscape and mansions,

37:06 Speaker 4: these buildings of he called it otherworldly building material. And

37:12 Speaker 4: he said, I long to go into this place. He's

37:15 Speaker 4: describing the new Jerusalem. He's describing this holy city of God,

37:20 Speaker 4: exactly like John did in Revelation twenty one. And Santosh said,

37:26 Speaker 4: there were twelve gates. I counted them. He said. Now

37:29 Speaker 4: the other thing you have to realize, and this is

37:31 Speaker 4: a commonality, is your ice sight is like telescopic on

37:35 Speaker 4: the other side, like you can see for miles, for

37:39 Speaker 4: thousands of miles, as if right up close, which again

37:45 Speaker 4: Christians might not realize, is actually biblical. Now, when I

37:48 Speaker 4: first heard this, I was like, oh, that's kind of

37:50 Speaker 4: weird and then God shows me. In Revelation twenty one,

37:55 Speaker 4: when John is describing the Holy City, he said, the

38:00 Speaker 4: spirit takes him up to a very high mountain that's

38:04 Speaker 4: above the city. Now, interestingly, you can also hear in

38:08 Speaker 4: my podcast I interview a commercial airline pilot doctor I

38:12 Speaker 4: mean Captain Dale Black, and he said he sees the

38:16 Speaker 4: same city, describes it and there were mountains more majestic

38:20 Speaker 4: than the Himalayas that were up above and around the city.

38:26 Speaker 4: John says, he's up on one of those mountains, and

38:29 Speaker 4: yet he reads the names on the foundation stones of

38:33 Speaker 4: the city. How well, because you have telescopic eyesight's and

38:41 Speaker 4: Paul described all this. By the way, you know, Paul

38:45 Speaker 4: may have had a near death experience. In next chapter fourteen,

38:48 Speaker 4: it says that he was stoned to death in Listra

38:52 Speaker 4: and left for dead, and then he gets back up

38:57 Speaker 4: and goes back into the city, and the believers were

39:03 Speaker 4: praying for him, and he gets back up, and then

39:05 Speaker 4: he says in Second Corinthians twelve fourteen years ago, whether

39:10 Speaker 4: I was in my body or out of my body,

39:12 Speaker 4: I don't know, but I was taken up to Paradise.

39:16 Speaker 4: I was taken up to the third heaven, and I

39:18 Speaker 4: saw and heard things inexpressible. So I think he might

39:22 Speaker 4: have had a near death experience when he was stoned

39:24 Speaker 4: to death in Lystra. So he describes a lot of

39:27 Speaker 4: these same things. And he says that when our bodies die,

39:32 Speaker 4: they're buried in natural body, but they're raised a spiritual body.

39:37 Speaker 4: They're buried in weakness, but they're raised in Dunama is

39:41 Speaker 4: the Greek word power, the word dynamite. We get our

39:45 Speaker 4: word dynamite. So these new powers of telescopic vision and

39:49 Speaker 4: things like that. So Santosh perfectly describes the Holy City

39:55 Speaker 4: of God. And then he's like, where am I? And

39:58 Speaker 4: he looks down to his left, and he said, he

40:02 Speaker 4: sees this abyss, this abyss of darkness, that if he

40:07 Speaker 4: falls down there he will drop into and a lake

40:10 Speaker 4: of fire. And he said, I knew that is hopeless.

40:16 Speaker 4: He's describing a vision of hell. He said, I didn't

40:22 Speaker 4: want to go there. I wanted to go in the city,

40:25 Speaker 4: but I wasn't given I wasn't given the option of reincarnation,

40:29 Speaker 4: and I didn't know what to do. And then I

40:32 Speaker 4: turn and I look, and he sees a throne and

40:36 Speaker 4: this giant who he knows is God, but in the

40:41 Speaker 4: form of a man. And he looks up at his face,

40:44 Speaker 4: and he said he had eyes like lightning, and he

40:48 Speaker 4: had feet like glowing metal, glowing bronze. Santage said, well,

40:55 Speaker 4: he's describing the risen Jesus, just like Daniel did chapter seven,

41:01 Speaker 4: and just like John does in Revelation chapter one. And

41:07 Speaker 4: as soon as he looks into his eyes, his whole

41:10 Speaker 4: life flashes before him and he realizes, I have sinned

41:16 Speaker 4: so badly. I deserve hell. And he falls to his

41:20 Speaker 4: knees and he says, Lord, please forgive me, Please forgive me.

41:24 Speaker 4: And then when the Lord speaks to him, he shocked

41:28 Speaker 4: because he said, I'm Santash. I'm sending you back to

41:33 Speaker 4: the Earth. And when I send you back, you must love,

41:37 Speaker 4: love your family, love your children. And he said there

41:41 Speaker 4: was such mercy and compassion and tenderness and love from

41:45 Speaker 4: the Lord. He thought, I deserve hell. Why is he

41:49 Speaker 4: not sending me there? And yet he felt this compassion

41:53 Speaker 4: from God. And then they have this incredible conversation where

42:00 Speaker 4: Santosh sees a very narrow gate. So he sees these

42:04 Speaker 4: twelve gates and they're all closed to him. But then

42:09 Speaker 4: he sees a very narrow gate right next to this throne,

42:15 Speaker 4: and it's open to him into the Kingdom of heaven.

42:19 Speaker 4: And because the Lord was so compassionate and tender to him,

42:22 Speaker 4: he says, Lord, when I come back, I want to

42:26 Speaker 4: go through that narrow gate. Show me. Tell me how

42:28 Speaker 4: do I go through that narrow gate. The only thing

42:31 Speaker 4: the Lord said to him is I you know. And

42:36 Speaker 4: Santosh was thinking, which religion? Which you know, God? What

42:41 Speaker 4: religious practices do I do? And the Lord said, I

42:46 Speaker 4: want to see how honest you are with me. How

42:51 Speaker 4: honest is your relationship with me? Not one day a week,

42:55 Speaker 4: but three hundred and sixty five days a year. Walk

42:59 Speaker 4: with me in complete surrender. So Santosh comes back and

43:04 Speaker 4: he too is seeking. He's like, who is this God?

43:09 Speaker 4: I knew he was God, but he was not like

43:12 Speaker 4: the gods I've learned about in the of a Gita

43:16 Speaker 4: or the Vedas, or you know. He knew me inside

43:20 Speaker 4: and out. He loved me so much, and yet I

43:22 Speaker 4: knew I deserved to be sent to hell. And so

43:28 Speaker 4: he's wanting to know who is this God of compassion?

43:31 Speaker 4: And he's praying every day. Now you have to remember

43:34 Speaker 4: John you know, God tells us in the Old Testament,

43:38 Speaker 4: if you seek Me with all your heart, you will

43:40 Speaker 4: find meure right. And he is the God who searches

43:45 Speaker 4: the hearts. It says in Chronicles, he searches the hearts.

43:49 Speaker 4: His eyes roam about the earth, searching for hearts who

43:52 Speaker 4: are completely his. So if someone is seeking the True

43:58 Speaker 4: God with all their heart, they're going to find him.

44:02 Speaker 4: And that's what happened with Santash. Two years later, his

44:05 Speaker 4: daughter is invited to sing in a choir with a

44:08 Speaker 4: friend at a church. He goes to hear her and

44:13 Speaker 4: the message that day. He first he walks in and

44:15 Speaker 4: he feels the same loving presence that he felt in

44:19 Speaker 4: the light of God. The message that day is on

44:25 Speaker 4: is Matthew seven, where it says you must enter the

44:29 Speaker 4: Kingdom of Heaven through the narrow Gate. And John ten,

44:34 Speaker 4: where Jesus says, I am the Gate for the sheep. Yes,

44:37 Speaker 4: I am the gate. Whoever enters in through me will

44:40 Speaker 4: be saved. The thief comes to steal and kill and destroy,

44:47 Speaker 4: But I have come to give them life abundantly. And

44:53 Speaker 4: so you know, and those are just those are just

44:56 Speaker 4: two of the of the people from India but I

44:59 Speaker 4: also interviewed a Muslim woman in Tehran who describes the

45:06 Speaker 4: same God of Light who it comes as a man

45:12 Speaker 4: and says to her, I am he who is. And

45:16 Speaker 4: she's back in her body, but with a peace and

45:19 Speaker 4: a joy she's never felt before. She's like, who is

45:21 Speaker 4: this God? Who said? I am he who is? And

45:24 Speaker 4: by the way, he spoke this in Persian, and she

45:30 Speaker 4: spoke it to me in Persian because she doesn't know English,

45:32 Speaker 4: it was translated to me in English, I am he

45:35 Speaker 4: who is. When she had this near death experience, and

45:40 Speaker 4: she starts seeking and realizes, oh my gosh, the same

45:44 Speaker 4: God of Light appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai and said,

45:49 Speaker 4: I am the one who I am, the self existent one.

45:52 Speaker 4: I am who I am? Or I am he who is?

45:59 Speaker 4: So I interview people professors, spine surgeons, commercial airline pilots, doctors, lawyers,

46:12 Speaker 4: people who have nothing to gain making up these wild stories,

46:17 Speaker 4: and yet consistently they're giving verifiable observations. They're talking about

46:26 Speaker 4: common elements that they didn't know existed. And they're also

46:33 Speaker 4: meeting the same God that has revealed himself throughout the

46:37 Speaker 4: Jewish prophets and through Jesus. None of that. None of

46:41 Speaker 4: those three things alone cannot be explained if these are

46:45 Speaker 4: just in the brain.

46:46 Speaker 2: True, Well, you shared a lot and we just have

46:54 Speaker 2: like hardly fifteen more minutes. So I just want to

46:57 Speaker 2: be more quick in the next couple of things I

46:59 Speaker 2: want to talk to you about. There's so much to think,

47:02 Speaker 2: and many of the stories I already listened. So the

47:04 Speaker 2: minute you said about Santos, I think I've listened to

47:07 Speaker 2: it a couple of times, and even the Persian story.

47:11 Speaker 2: And I was also reminded of that Rwanda case. A

47:16 Speaker 2: boy I think he died and he came back after

47:19 Speaker 2: a or two yes, and then I think he there

47:26 Speaker 2: have been like some seven or eight attempts on his life,

47:29 Speaker 2: including his dad wants to stop him because he's a preacher.

47:33 Speaker 2: So this is one thing, guys, I want you to

47:35 Speaker 2: understand that. You know, the reason I wanted to talk

47:37 Speaker 2: about these stories is to let you know that people

47:39 Speaker 2: have different faiths, different nationalities, different backgrounds. I've all come

47:43 Speaker 2: back with one commonality that whom they saw was the

47:47 Speaker 2: God of you know, the Bible. See, when you were

47:49 Speaker 2: talking about this, I want to know, like like I said,

47:52 Speaker 2: you know, I have also had moments when a lot

47:54 Speaker 2: took me the spirit, you know, into places. There are

47:57 Speaker 2: people who have those kind of encounters, so it's just similar.

48:01 Speaker 2: Like I've also had encounters where the Lord took me

48:04 Speaker 2: in the spirit and showed me glimpses of hell. Is

48:07 Speaker 2: that similar to an indie experience? Or is this something

48:11 Speaker 2: totally different?

48:12 Speaker 3: I mean, maybe you can be as chief as.

48:15 Speaker 4: You know, John, I don't know for sure. Okay, I

48:20 Speaker 4: don't know, but here's what I do know. I know

48:23 Speaker 4: that God did that for Old Testament prophets. For instance,

48:28 Speaker 4: Isaiah was taken in the spirit to the throne of God.

48:33 Speaker 4: Daniel as well saw a vision of heaven and he

48:37 Speaker 4: saw you know, and this is of course, way before

48:40 Speaker 4: Jesus came. He sees a son of Man who is

48:44 Speaker 4: given by God, the Father authority over all the nations.

48:49 Speaker 4: So he sees the triune God, you know, five hundred years,

48:54 Speaker 4: four hundred something years before Jesus ever came. And so

48:59 Speaker 4: I do know that God does this. Is it a

49:03 Speaker 4: vision or is he actually taking people, for instance, in

49:07 Speaker 4: their sleep in He's actually taking their spirit to that place.

49:13 Speaker 4: I don't know, And but I will say there have

49:19 Speaker 4: been many people that have shared similar things to what

49:22 Speaker 4: you said, and they have described a lot of the

49:25 Speaker 4: same commonalities, like if they were taken to heaven in

49:29 Speaker 4: the spirit they've reviewed, they've shared a lot of the

49:32 Speaker 4: same commonalities that near death experiencers also share.

49:37 Speaker 2: Okay, Like maybe you could just share, like what is

49:40 Speaker 2: heaven like to a person who has no clue what

49:42 Speaker 2: heaven is like.

49:45 Speaker 4: So I think one of the big misconceptions of heaven

49:50 Speaker 4: is that it's somehow less real than this place. And

49:56 Speaker 4: that is the opposite of what every near death experience

50:00 Speaker 4: tells me. They say, no, this is the shadow, that's

50:04 Speaker 4: the real thing. And by the way, interestingly, in Hebrews

50:07 Speaker 4: chapter eight, it says that it says that that God

50:11 Speaker 4: had Moses construct the tabernacle out of something real in heaven,

50:17 Speaker 4: and the tabernacle was just a shadow, a copy of

50:20 Speaker 4: the real thing in heaven. So imagine. So this is

50:24 Speaker 4: the best way, and this is what I'm trying to

50:26 Speaker 4: get people to do through the books I've written and

50:31 Speaker 4: the podcasting and all that, is to imagine Heaven more accurately. Right,

50:37 Speaker 4: So imagine all the beauty, all the wonders, all the

50:43 Speaker 4: pleasurable enjoyable experiences we've had on this earth, well they're all.

50:48 Speaker 4: We enjoy them, and they are pleasurable because God created

50:51 Speaker 4: us to be able to right. And all the beauty

50:57 Speaker 4: we see is a gift from God. And yet this

51:00 Speaker 4: world is marred. Romans chapter eight says, all creation is groaning.

51:07 Speaker 4: It's laboring, like in childbirth, under the birth pangs of

51:11 Speaker 4: disease and death and famine and misfortune. So sin has entered,

51:19 Speaker 4: and God remains somewhat hidden, and he lets human free

51:24 Speaker 4: will rule. And as a result, we experience a tiny

51:29 Speaker 4: taste of heaven and a tiny taste of hell, and

51:34 Speaker 4: both are far greater in wonder and far greater in

51:39 Speaker 4: horror than you can imagine. So the best thing when

51:43 Speaker 4: you think about heaven is think about all the things

51:46 Speaker 4: you love here, but magnified. And that's what people have

51:52 Speaker 4: told me. So like doctor Mary Neil, this spine surgeon

51:57 Speaker 4: who's kayak was pinned under the waterfall. Hear her story

52:00 Speaker 4: in the podcast as well. She said, I went from

52:05 Speaker 4: alive to even more alive, from conscious to more conscious.

52:12 Speaker 4: And several of them, doctor Neil, this Captain Dale Black,

52:16 Speaker 4: the airline pilot. I asked them at one point, I said,

52:21 Speaker 4: so do you realize you're dead? And they both kind

52:24 Speaker 4: of chuckle and go, well, at that point I kind

52:28 Speaker 4: of thought, I guess I'm dead, because they didn't feel dead,

52:33 Speaker 4: they felt more alive. And Jesus said this, by the way,

52:38 Speaker 4: you know, Jesus last night on Earth and John chapter fourteen,

52:41 Speaker 4: he says to his close friends, you know, I'm going

52:45 Speaker 4: to prepare a place for you. Trust in God, trust

52:48 Speaker 4: also in me. I'm going to prepare a place for you.

52:51 Speaker 4: There are many rooms in my father's home, right, and

52:55 Speaker 4: I will come and get you, and you will always

52:57 Speaker 4: be with me where I am. And Jesus said, God

53:00 Speaker 4: is not the god of the dead, He's the God

53:02 Speaker 4: of the living. Right And when people so some of

53:08 Speaker 4: the commonalities when people die is they go they enter

53:13 Speaker 4: into paradise, which, by the way, your death experiencers say,

53:19 Speaker 4: what Jesus said to the thief on the cross today,

53:22 Speaker 4: you'll be with me in Paradise is actually the outside

53:27 Speaker 4: the suburbs, outside the holy city of God. It's the

53:31 Speaker 4: place most like Earth, and we many of many come

53:35 Speaker 4: there first to kind of acclimate, but it's very much

53:40 Speaker 4: like Earth. It's beauty, it's mountains, it's trees, it's streams,

53:43 Speaker 4: it's valleys, it's you know, it's water, animals, people. There

53:49 Speaker 4: are hugs. There's this great reunion, this welcoming committee, usually

53:54 Speaker 4: of friends and relatives who have died before us, and

54:00 Speaker 4: they come to us and we hug. We remember, we

54:04 Speaker 4: have we still have our memories, we still have our humor.

54:07 Speaker 4: We are ourselves in fact, you know, John, One of

54:10 Speaker 4: the things is just most amazing to me is how

54:15 Speaker 4: themselves people feel in the presence of Jesus or this

54:20 Speaker 4: God of Light, the Father. And they describe how in

54:24 Speaker 4: heaven you don't think of them as Father, Son and

54:27 Speaker 4: Holy Spirit. They're just one. Even though still they see

54:34 Speaker 4: Jesus and they see the Father on the throne, and

54:37 Speaker 4: they know the Holy Spirit is with them always. They

54:40 Speaker 4: experience the Trinity. But there is a there is an

54:44 Speaker 4: understanding that of there's just one God that isn't confusing

54:50 Speaker 4: there like it is here. And and the thing that

54:58 Speaker 4: they say most commonly is that it is life, but

55:04 Speaker 4: it's life without all that's wrong here. And so Jesus

55:11 Speaker 4: said all these things. He said, there's gonna be responsibility.

55:14 Speaker 4: Some of you are going to govern nations. You know

55:18 Speaker 4: you're his disciples. You're gonna sit on twelve twelve thrones,

55:23 Speaker 4: ruling over, governing over the twelve tribes of Israel. But

55:26 Speaker 4: others are going to govern nations. Some are going to

55:29 Speaker 4: care for animals, others they're Maybe you're creative, you're going

55:34 Speaker 4: to create songs that are going to be sung in heaven.

55:37 Speaker 4: There's music that people talk about is like music on

55:41 Speaker 4: an otherworldly dimension. They talk about the colors of heaven

55:47 Speaker 4: and how vivid everything is. So it's it's like, imagine

55:51 Speaker 4: the greatest beauty you've seen on Earth, but multiply it

55:57 Speaker 4: by a thousand. Color is beyond our color spectrum. Dale

56:03 Speaker 4: Black said to me, you know, we have like green

56:06 Speaker 4: and blue and red and yellow, but now take blue

56:12 Speaker 4: and imagine a thousand shades of blue and you can

56:17 Speaker 4: see them all clearly, vividly, and that's the color spectrum,

56:23 Speaker 4: but far beyond colors we can't even describe on earth.

56:27 Speaker 4: And they consistently say this and then a life to

56:31 Speaker 4: all of nature. Interestingly, you know, Christians in America have

56:38 Speaker 4: kind of pushed away this idea of oneness, right, and

56:43 Speaker 4: that's more of a Hindu concept. But the truth is

56:47 Speaker 4: there is truth God has left. God has left evidence

56:51 Speaker 4: of truth all around the globe for everyone who will

56:54 Speaker 4: seek him, right, I mean even in the Vedas. I've

56:58 Speaker 4: read in the Vedas about the parush Prajapati who had

57:02 Speaker 4: come in the form of a man too to die

57:07 Speaker 4: for the for the remission of karma, get off the

57:11 Speaker 4: cycle of sam Sara. M m, well, that's salvation, right.

57:16 Speaker 4: So I mean there there are traces of the One

57:18 Speaker 4: True God everywhere.

57:20 Speaker 2: Can you just describe the hottest of health, like, I mean,

57:23 Speaker 2: with all the hellish experiences, the most carriers or something

57:27 Speaker 2: like that, to remind people the reality of health, because

57:30 Speaker 2: sometimes people say God is a loving god. I mean,

57:33 Speaker 2: he won't send people to hell, you know. I heard

57:36 Speaker 2: Christians teach that. So maybe a quick thing on that.

57:41 Speaker 4: Yeah. One thing that studying near death experiences will also

57:45 Speaker 4: convince you of is that hell is real. It's it's

57:48 Speaker 4: a reality. And what they commonly say, like I interviewed

57:53 Speaker 4: this atheist, Howard Storm, and he was a professor, but

58:00 Speaker 4: when he came back, so he had this hellish experience

58:03 Speaker 4: and he is led by these people that if at

58:07 Speaker 4: first are nice, but they deceive him and they lead

58:12 Speaker 4: him into this outer darkness, just like Jesus described, and

58:16 Speaker 4: they turn on him and just maul him. And in

58:20 Speaker 4: that place he remembers hearing that Jesus saves, and he,

58:26 Speaker 4: in desperation, cries out to Jesus and says, into this darkness,

58:30 Speaker 4: then these people were just mauling They were doing the

58:33 Speaker 4: worst things you can imagine to him and enjoying it.

58:38 Speaker 4: And what he realized is that hell is the place

58:42 Speaker 4: where God gives the free willed creature what he or

58:47 Speaker 4: she wants. If what he wants is God, stay out

58:51 Speaker 4: of my life. I've got this, I know what's best

58:55 Speaker 4: for me. You just leave me alone, or I'm just

58:57 Speaker 4: going to pretend you don't exist. And then God in

59:01 Speaker 4: his great sadness, and I report on the sadness of

59:06 Speaker 4: God as well, because we're all created to be his children.

59:09 Speaker 4: Imagine if your children like rejected you forever, that's the

59:13 Speaker 4: way God feels. But because love is God, God is love,

59:20 Speaker 4: and love is what He created us for. But love

59:22 Speaker 4: can't be forced. Love must be free to choose. And

59:26 Speaker 4: so if someone says God, stay out of my life,

59:30 Speaker 4: he says, okay, I will give you what you want,

59:35 Speaker 4: and that is Hell, and many near death experiencers have

59:39 Speaker 4: said to me what C. S. Lewis, famous author, also

59:43 Speaker 4: said that hell is really locked from the inside. It's

59:48 Speaker 4: people locking God out. It's not God locking people out.

59:52 Speaker 4: It's a choice they're making so no one has to

59:55 Speaker 4: go there. And what Jesus did was to make a

59:59 Speaker 4: way for all all people of all nations who simply

1:00:03 Speaker 4: turn their heart back to God wanting his forgiveness, wanting

1:00:07 Speaker 4: his leadership. That's all, that's all they need. And he

1:00:13 Speaker 4: takes us back as his as his own children. And yeah,

1:00:18 Speaker 4: so hell is real. But that's also why God did

1:00:23 Speaker 4: what he did through Jesus to offer grace and forgiveness

1:00:27 Speaker 4: to all people.

1:00:29 Speaker 3: Amen.

1:00:29 Speaker 4: Amen.

1:00:31 Speaker 2: Because of lack of time, I'm going to be very quick, guys,

1:00:33 Speaker 2: i encourage you to check out past this books, check

1:00:35 Speaker 2: out is podcast, is YouTube channel, like putting all the

1:00:38 Speaker 2: details in the description.

1:00:40 Speaker 3: Whether it's on YouTube you're checking.

1:00:41 Speaker 2: Out, I want you to check out my books which

1:00:44 Speaker 2: are also available also my YouTube channel. If you're checking

1:00:48 Speaker 2: this out on YouTube, subscribe, let it, let the message

1:00:51 Speaker 2: go forward, Let it be a blessing to a lot

1:00:53 Speaker 2: of people. I want to quickly pray for you, Pastor

1:00:56 Speaker 2: and then I encourage you to pray for me, the

1:00:58 Speaker 2: ministry and any words you want to share for the

1:01:00 Speaker 2: ministry right now, anything that you want to share towards me,

1:01:04 Speaker 2: the ministry and the podcast before.

1:01:06 Speaker 4: That, well, I would just say this that I believe

1:01:09 Speaker 4: God is doing something unique in our day. I mean,

1:01:13 Speaker 4: think about it. You're in India. I know it's forty

1:01:17 Speaker 4: hours to get over there. I've been right, We're a

1:01:20 Speaker 4: long way away. And yet look how God is connecting

1:01:23 Speaker 4: all of us together. I believe in these last days.

1:01:27 Speaker 4: So you are in such an important place, to the

1:01:32 Speaker 4: Lord and share what you know, share John's podcast with

1:01:38 Speaker 4: all your friends who don't know the uniqueness of Jesus

1:01:43 Speaker 4: and that he has done these things in history and

1:01:46 Speaker 4: he's continuing to for the sake of all his children

1:01:49 Speaker 4: coming home one day.

1:01:53 Speaker 2: I just pray for you, and then I request you

1:01:55 Speaker 2: to pray for me in ministry and all of us.

1:01:58 Speaker 2: Right sure, Lord, I pray for past in the name

1:02:00 Speaker 2: of Jesus. I thank you for the way you've been

1:02:02 Speaker 2: using in I pray that you'll continue to use Him

1:02:05 Speaker 2: as a mighty vessel for you across the globe. Right now,

1:02:09 Speaker 2: I see a vision of you traveling more and more.

1:02:12 Speaker 2: I release that vision over you that you will travel

1:02:15 Speaker 2: more to the ends of the world and share what

1:02:17 Speaker 2: you God has been showing you revealing to you. And

1:02:20 Speaker 2: I release that word over you. I speak also, I

1:02:23 Speaker 2: see a vision of protection and coverage over you, specifically

1:02:26 Speaker 2: as you go into certain pockets. I release that anointing

1:02:30 Speaker 2: over you that you will be protected from dangers in

1:02:33 Speaker 2: unexpected ways. I release that word also over you. You

1:02:37 Speaker 2: and your family will receive the blessing of the Lord

1:02:40 Speaker 2: and your ministry as well. In Jesus name, I pray, Amen, Amen.

1:02:45 Speaker 4: And Lord, I pray for John and for all that

1:02:50 Speaker 4: you have raised him up to do. I thank you

1:02:53 Speaker 4: for every person who is listening to this right now. God,

1:02:58 Speaker 4: You have put us all here for a reason and

1:03:01 Speaker 4: a purpose. We know people who need to know of

1:03:04 Speaker 4: your great love of how you see us all as

1:03:07 Speaker 4: your children, and we are meant to know you through Jesus.

1:03:10 Speaker 4: We are meant to be confident that you have not

1:03:15 Speaker 4: condemned us, You have not judged us for our wrongs,

1:03:19 Speaker 4: even though it deserves that. But you have forgiven us,

1:03:22 Speaker 4: and you've taken us to be your children in your

1:03:25 Speaker 4: eternal home and So God, I pray your protection on

1:03:29 Speaker 4: John and the word as it goes out through his ministry.

1:03:32 Speaker 4: And I pray for every person hearing this, that you

1:03:36 Speaker 4: would protect and guard and guide them, and that this

1:03:40 Speaker 4: word would go to many people all across India and

1:03:43 Speaker 4: around the world. In Jesus' name. Amen.

1:03:46 Speaker 3: Amen, God bless you guys.

1:03:48 Speaker 4: God bless you too.

1:03:50 Speaker 1: Thanks you've been listening to Fuel for the Soul with

1:03:54 Speaker 1: John Gifda, we hope you were blessed and inspired to

1:03:58 Speaker 1: live the life that God has for you. Make sure

1:04:00 Speaker 1: to subscribe to the John Gifta YouTube channel for regular

1:04:04 Speaker 1: uploads of sermons, skits, interviews and more. Follow John Gifta

1:04:08 Speaker 1: on Instagram for regular inspirational posts, and don't forget to

1:04:12 Speaker 1: check out the best selling books written by John Gifta,

1:04:16 Speaker 1: Who Am I which will help you understand your identity

1:04:19 Speaker 1: and the latest number one best seller Unveil your Purpose,

1:04:23 Speaker 1: helping you discover your purpose and to start walking in it.

1:04:26 Speaker 1: Make sure to leave a rating and review and be

1:04:28 Speaker 1: sure to share it with your friends and loved ones.

1:04:31 Speaker 1: If you'd like to donate, you can find the PayPal

1:04:33 Speaker 1: link in the description, and if you'd like to invite

1:04:36 Speaker 1: John Gifta to speak at your event or to get

1:04:38 Speaker 1: more details, go to the website at www godjoongifted dot com.

1:04:44 Speaker 1: See you on the next episode of the Fuel for

1:04:47 Speaker 1: the Soul with John Gifta. God bless you.