THE CHRISTIAN TRUTH ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH 🧠🛡️ | Neuroscience & Faith | Ft. Rini Jacob

0:01 Speaker 1: Do you ever look around and think, Wow, the world

0:05 Speaker 1: is a crazy place and it just seems to get

0:08 Speaker 1: crazier and crazier. Ease your mind and take a break.

0:13 Speaker 1: This is Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. We're

0:17 Speaker 1: a hub for inspirational Christian sermons, practical keys for Christian living,

0:23 Speaker 1: in Christian discussions and interviews. You'll be inspired to live

0:27 Speaker 1: the life that you were created for. Your host is

0:30 Speaker 1: a top ranking podcaster, best selling author, world record holder,

0:35 Speaker 1: aerospace engineer, life coach, evangelist and founder of John Gifta International.

0:41 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.

0:45 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, Welcome to this edition of the Fuel for

0:48 Speaker 2: the Soul with John Gifta podcast. I'm so glad that

0:51 Speaker 2: you're joined in for this special edition where I have

0:53 Speaker 2: a guest, Renny Jacob. She's a clinical psychologist as well

0:57 Speaker 2: as the host of the podcasts. I'm glad I was

1:02 Speaker 2: able to get that through, So thank you so much

1:05 Speaker 2: for joining and really, of.

1:06 Speaker 3: Course I'm so glad to be here.

1:08 Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, before we get started, I just wanted

1:12 Speaker 2: to give this shout out that I started recording the

1:15 Speaker 2: podcast at this studio the magnificant studio, and you were

1:19 Speaker 2: the one who actually introduced me to the studio, and

1:22 Speaker 2: I'm glad that you're the first guest on the part

1:24 Speaker 2: here at the studio, So pray Scout for that. So

1:28 Speaker 2: thank you so much for that heart, and thank you

1:30 Speaker 2: for being here. So, like I said, that, you're in

1:33 Speaker 2: this psychology space as well as being practicing therapy with

1:37 Speaker 2: faith based tools and all of these things. So what

1:41 Speaker 2: led you to this path?

1:44 Speaker 3: That's such an interesting question.

1:46 Speaker 4: So for about five issues, I was just doing therapy

1:52 Speaker 4: in the secular way. Whatever my textbooks taught me, whatever

1:55 Speaker 4: my course and degree taught me, is what I was doing.

1:58 Speaker 4: And at some point I felt like there was some

2:01 Speaker 4: like the clients would make progress up to a point

2:03 Speaker 4: and suddenly they would just get stuck. And I just

2:06 Speaker 4: felt the Holy Spirit saying like why don't you pray

2:08 Speaker 4: for them? Or why don't you talk about me? And

2:11 Speaker 4: it just felt like it only made sense for therapy

2:15 Speaker 4: to go forward if I invited God into the space.

2:18 Speaker 4: And so God really led me into faith based therapy.

2:21 Speaker 4: In fact, I've gone for therapy myself, and one of

2:25 Speaker 4: my early exposures to faith based therapy was through my

2:27 Speaker 4: own therapist who was a Christian and she integrated faith

2:31 Speaker 4: in therapy and so yeah, that's really where.

2:34 Speaker 3: It got started.

2:35 Speaker 2: Oo, we really need more people talking about this. I think.

2:39 Speaker 2: In fact, guys, if you're not checked this out, I

2:42 Speaker 2: got the chance to interview Recruity Angelina on the similar

2:46 Speaker 2: topic about mental health. You can check that out. That

2:49 Speaker 2: was a couple of years back. But I think that

2:51 Speaker 2: we need to keep talking about these things. And you

2:54 Speaker 2: have that unique thing bringing to the table. And also,

2:57 Speaker 2: like you said, you know you were doing therapy and

3:00 Speaker 2: all of these things, but you were like, why not

3:02 Speaker 2: integrate faith into it because that's where the meaning comes right, Like,

3:06 Speaker 2: for example, my heart is if you see one of

3:09 Speaker 2: my debut books is on finding your purpose and male

3:11 Speaker 2: a purpose. And I keep telling people that, you know,

3:14 Speaker 2: everyone has a unique calling. And when we talk about

3:17 Speaker 2: calling a purpose, we immediately think you have to become

3:20 Speaker 2: a preacher or a worship leader. Whether I believe that

3:23 Speaker 2: God has called us to be in that unique space.

3:26 Speaker 2: You know, you are into counseling, you're into therapy, and

3:29 Speaker 2: you're able to use that to help people in the

3:32 Speaker 2: time of need. Now, for example, for me, I serve

3:36 Speaker 2: as you can obvious leave Scooby Doo and people talk

3:38 Speaker 2: about Scooby Doo is a fun way, But I integrate

3:42 Speaker 2: Scooby Doo with faith to bring out messages in a

3:44 Speaker 2: unique way. No one has heard of a Scooby pastor.

3:47 Speaker 3: It's me.

3:48 Speaker 2: You know, it's a very unique thing. So I really

3:50 Speaker 2: challenge you guys that, you know, if you're thinking, like

3:53 Speaker 2: what you're doing makes no sense, ask the Lord. Like

3:57 Speaker 2: Lenny was able to integrate what she was passionate to

4:01 Speaker 2: connect with faith and help people bless the kingdom. So

4:05 Speaker 2: like the way I'm using Scooby Doo in this unique way,

4:08 Speaker 2: why not each of us, you know, start our own

4:11 Speaker 2: things that God has called us. You know, that's the

4:13 Speaker 2: place I want to get started. And I really challenge

4:16 Speaker 2: you guys to have this attitude of you know, being

4:19 Speaker 2: like a sponge to receive whatever the Lord wants to give,

4:22 Speaker 2: because sometimes we think like, oh, mental health, that's not

4:25 Speaker 2: for me, because you know, there's such a big taboo

4:27 Speaker 2: around this whole aspect of mental health, and I think

4:30 Speaker 2: we really need to talk about it. So to get started,

4:33 Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about what is this whole

4:36 Speaker 2: idea about mental health? Because sometimes people say, well, this

4:38 Speaker 2: person has mental health. Everybody has mental health. So it's

4:42 Speaker 2: more to do with you know, how you allow it

4:44 Speaker 2: to function. So give us a little bit of understanding

4:48 Speaker 2: on that.

4:49 Speaker 3: For sure.

4:51 Speaker 4: Mental well being is just one part of our houristic wellness. Right,

4:57 Speaker 4: So there's so much that we know about our physical wealth,

5:01 Speaker 4: maybe a little bit that we know about our spiritual Yeah,

5:05 Speaker 4: there's a lot that we know about our spiritual well being.

5:07 Speaker 4: There's a lot that we know about our physical well being,

5:09 Speaker 4: but there's very little that people want to acknowledge about

5:12 Speaker 4: emotional and mental well being.

5:14 Speaker 3: Right. God created our brains.

5:17 Speaker 4: God created and gave us all the different organs in

5:21 Speaker 4: our body, and we value and respect and honor and

5:24 Speaker 4: care for every other part of the body.

5:26 Speaker 3: But when it comes to do with anything to do

5:28 Speaker 3: with the mind, there is.

5:29 Speaker 4: Just so much stigma because it's looked at through the

5:32 Speaker 4: lens of spiritual failure lack of faith, and so anything

5:37 Speaker 4: to do with mental illness is immediately like, no, God

5:41 Speaker 4: is not in that picture, and that's why you're struggling.

5:44 Speaker 2: And so yeah, that's so needed. We need to talk

5:47 Speaker 2: about it, like what is what do you think is

5:49 Speaker 2: God's heart behind this? Because I feel that you know,

5:53 Speaker 2: God created us, like the scripture says, right, like love

5:56 Speaker 2: the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. It's

5:59 Speaker 2: not just love the heart with your heart. You know,

6:02 Speaker 2: like there's a place for the mind, because if you're

6:05 Speaker 2: struggling physically, you would say, oh, I'm so sorry for you,

6:08 Speaker 2: let me pray for you, take care of your health.

6:10 Speaker 2: But if somebody is struggling mentally, they just say, it's

6:13 Speaker 2: in your mind, get out of it. So what do

6:16 Speaker 2: you for that?

6:18 Speaker 4: Yeah, therapy is never a replacement for God. And therapy

6:23 Speaker 4: is never a replacement for the Holy Spirit and everything

6:25 Speaker 4: that God can do in and throw us. But it

6:28 Speaker 4: really therapy reflects God's heart for wholeness, that he wants

6:33 Speaker 4: us to become whole. He wants us to experience a

6:37 Speaker 4: life of joy and freedom, right, and therapy is one

6:40 Speaker 4: of those incredible tools and one of those spaces where

6:44 Speaker 4: we can grow and become healthier in our minds. And

6:49 Speaker 4: so that really is one point, you know, it reflects

6:52 Speaker 4: God's heart for wholeness.

6:54 Speaker 3: And the second thing.

6:55 Speaker 4: Is God has very specifically instructed us. I think it's

6:58 Speaker 4: in Galatians where it says carry each other's burdens, right,

7:02 Speaker 4: and God invites us to carry each other's burdens and

7:04 Speaker 4: do this journey together. And so what is stopping us

7:08 Speaker 4: from seeking help and seeking counsel, which we have also

7:12 Speaker 4: seen with a lot of biblical characters. Moses sought counsel,

7:15 Speaker 4: David had a whole group of profits and musicians to

7:18 Speaker 4: seek counsel from. Everybody sought counsel. And yet when we

7:23 Speaker 4: do it in this mode, it is somehow looked at differently.

7:27 Speaker 4: But yeah, I think God's heart is very much for

7:30 Speaker 4: mental health.

7:32 Speaker 3: And I think God's heart.

7:33 Speaker 4: For mental health in India really so much because of

7:36 Speaker 4: the misinformation and the lack of awareness as well and

7:39 Speaker 4: the stigma attached. I think there are so many people

7:42 Speaker 4: struggling with depression, so many suicides happening among Christians right

7:48 Speaker 4: in the church, that we're just not finding the words

7:52 Speaker 4: to address and approach.

7:55 Speaker 3: And I think it's time that we started doing that.

7:57 Speaker 2: So true, so true. First of all, when he was

8:00 Speaker 2: telling about the importance of therapy, say, some people may say, like,

8:04 Speaker 2: why do I need therapy when I have God? You

8:06 Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, I was reminded of how

8:08 Speaker 2: in Second King chapter twenty, when Hesekiah was about to be.

8:12 Speaker 2: I mean, like he was in the dead bed then

8:14 Speaker 2: he was going to die. Prophet Isaiah comes and gives

8:16 Speaker 2: him a word saying, listen, the Lord is saying you're

8:20 Speaker 2: going to live for fifteen more years, so basically saying

8:22 Speaker 2: that you're going to be healed. And then he gives

8:24 Speaker 2: an instruction to take these big leaves and put it

8:27 Speaker 2: on his boil and then he'll be healed. So the

8:29 Speaker 2: question comes that God heal him or was it the boil?

8:32 Speaker 2: I mean, was it the fig leaves? You know what

8:33 Speaker 2: I mean? So what is it? It's like God is

8:36 Speaker 2: the ultimate healer, but God uses means like it could

8:40 Speaker 2: be this fig in this case. So on a similar note,

8:43 Speaker 2: I believe like even for our mental wholeness, God is

8:47 Speaker 2: open or willing for us to use everything at our disposal.

8:51 Speaker 4: Right.

8:51 Speaker 2: It can be therapy, it can be counseling, it can

8:53 Speaker 2: be seeking some advice, it can be taking some steps.

8:57 Speaker 2: And I think people need to be in that position

9:00 Speaker 2: of being open. Like I said, we need to be

9:02 Speaker 2: like respond saying, you know what if this is something

9:05 Speaker 2: that I always have this outlook of life that I

9:08 Speaker 2: can always be wrong, that's how you are willing to

9:11 Speaker 2: be open to receive a new advice, a new suggestion.

9:15 Speaker 2: And I really pray that if you're someone who's thinking,

9:17 Speaker 2: because a lot of Christians have this idea, if you're

9:19 Speaker 2: a Christian, you can't be depressed. If you're a true

9:22 Speaker 2: believer in Christ, you're led by the spirit of God,

9:25 Speaker 2: you cannot have panic attacks. But to be honest, I've

9:28 Speaker 2: been in ministry for fourteen years and I openly share

9:31 Speaker 2: about these things that I've struggled. Like you said about

9:34 Speaker 2: suicide and depressions, like you know, I think Bangalore in India,

9:38 Speaker 2: for instance, is known as the suicide capital of the country.

9:42 Speaker 2: So with saying that, you know, those people were just

9:45 Speaker 2: stupid or foolish, Like I'm someone who has experienced that firsthand.

9:50 Speaker 2: You know what I mean. I'm a minister of God,

9:52 Speaker 2: I'm praying, I'm seeking the Lord. I love the Lord.

9:56 Speaker 2: But there are times right after having an encounter with

9:59 Speaker 2: a lot and I'm there's such a strong spirit saying

10:02 Speaker 2: jump in front of this vehicle or you know, I've

10:04 Speaker 2: experienced that. So what I'm trying to tell people is

10:07 Speaker 2: that guys, you know, mental health and mental awareness is

10:11 Speaker 2: something we need to be open about. You know, running

10:14 Speaker 2: away from it and not talking about it or ignoring it,

10:17 Speaker 2: it's not going to drive it away. It's only going

10:19 Speaker 2: to lead to more people suffering. And sometimes we think that,

10:23 Speaker 2: you know, if you're a believer, you should not and

10:25 Speaker 2: when you are doing that, what is happening is you're

10:28 Speaker 2: driving people away, those who are in actual pain. So

10:33 Speaker 2: what is your take on how we can deal to

10:35 Speaker 2: this taboo about Christian especially in the Christian world, and

10:39 Speaker 2: circle about this aspect of mental health to tell people

10:43 Speaker 2: that if somebody is going through something, it's okay. You know,

10:46 Speaker 2: you're not the hardware, not like it's not that God

10:49 Speaker 2: has forgotten you, or it's not because you're in the

10:51 Speaker 2: wrong track. Or if somebody is watching saying they are

10:54 Speaker 2: not able to understand why this other believer is saying

10:58 Speaker 2: that they're struggling from mental health, how do we tackle

11:01 Speaker 2: the taboo aspect of it.

11:02 Speaker 4: I think the approach really needs to change here because

11:05 Speaker 4: we often look at therapy as the last resort, Right,

11:09 Speaker 4: I tried everything and then I'm just gonna try this

11:12 Speaker 4: one last thing because nothing else is working. And so

11:16 Speaker 4: very often it is seen as, oh, you don't have

11:18 Speaker 4: enough faith to keep praying. Is that why you're going

11:20 Speaker 4: to therapy, right, And so often therapy is seen going

11:24 Speaker 4: to therapy is.

11:25 Speaker 3: Seen as a lack of faith.

11:27 Speaker 4: For actually, it is the one of the best opportunities

11:31 Speaker 4: to depend on God because it is you seeking counsel

11:35 Speaker 4: and it is you showing up with courage, you know,

11:38 Speaker 4: in the presence of a professional and saying hey, let's

11:41 Speaker 4: work on this together, and trusting in the therapy process

11:45 Speaker 4: because God is the one in the midst of it

11:48 Speaker 4: is spiritual reliance, right, it is.

11:53 Speaker 3: Not spiritual failure. And so I think that's.

11:56 Speaker 4: The shift that needs to happen because in faith based therapy,

11:59 Speaker 4: God is the center. Everything flows from the truth that

12:04 Speaker 4: Jesus is our healer and the Holy Spirit is on

12:07 Speaker 4: the move, and it is just even the therapist is

12:09 Speaker 4: a tool.

12:10 Speaker 3: Yes, it is not that the therapist.

12:12 Speaker 4: There is if at any point I go into a

12:14 Speaker 4: session relying on my own abilities, God, you know, so

12:18 Speaker 4: that really, yeah, that's so true.

12:21 Speaker 2: I remember there was something that I was dealing with

12:23 Speaker 2: for over eight years and I was praying about it

12:27 Speaker 2: and I was like, no, I need to like I

12:30 Speaker 2: fasted or whatever you talk about like decree declare everything

12:33 Speaker 2: okay for eight years, but it was constantly affecting me

12:38 Speaker 2: still about maybe two weeks ago when I was just

12:42 Speaker 2: praying in the spirit and I said, Holy Spirit, how

12:44 Speaker 2: do I deal with this? And then he gave me.

12:46 Speaker 2: Like you said about therapy is you know, taking counsel,

12:50 Speaker 2: that's one side of it, but there's also the other

12:52 Speaker 2: side where you follow tools, right like for example. So

12:55 Speaker 2: what happened was this was a unique tool that God

12:58 Speaker 2: gave me, Like why didn't you whatever these thoughts that

13:01 Speaker 2: are affecting you, why don't you convert that in the

13:03 Speaker 2: form of a story and release it out, you know,

13:07 Speaker 2: like express yourself. I started working on it, like I

13:10 Speaker 2: think for two days. It was so messy. My mine

13:13 Speaker 2: was like completely in a very bad shape because I

13:15 Speaker 2: was dealing with these things. I think that's just when

13:18 Speaker 2: I actually missed out reaching back to you, because I

13:20 Speaker 2: was actually in my own sense of doing therapy for myself.

13:24 Speaker 2: But you won't believe after those two days of working

13:27 Speaker 2: on it and just it was a unique idea that

13:29 Speaker 2: the Lord led me through after that, like I'm completely

13:33 Speaker 2: free in that area, you know what I mean? Like

13:35 Speaker 2: what eight years of fasting and praying did not help.

13:40 Speaker 2: When I followed what the Holy Spirit led me to

13:42 Speaker 2: do as a tool, in just two days, I was

13:45 Speaker 2: able to see a difference, you know what I mean.

13:48 Speaker 2: So guys, that's what I'm trying to say. I'm not

13:50 Speaker 2: saying that we are replacing God, you know, and we

13:54 Speaker 2: are trying to say that I put my focus on

13:56 Speaker 2: the tool. But what we are saying is we allow

13:59 Speaker 2: God to leave just through the tools that He wants

14:01 Speaker 2: us to use.

14:02 Speaker 3: Yeah.

14:02 Speaker 2: You know, like even when you say preaching the gospel, right,

14:06 Speaker 2: you're using this tool of the places that people are

14:10 Speaker 2: having hurt to use that to be the light in

14:12 Speaker 2: the darkness, right, Like we need to allow that, and

14:16 Speaker 2: we needed to have that sense of maturity to understand

14:19 Speaker 2: how God leads. Yes, And when you think about this,

14:22 Speaker 2: sometimes people think click, oh my gosh, you know, like

14:25 Speaker 2: there's something wrong with me when I'm facing this, But

14:28 Speaker 2: I do see the scripture. There were those in the

14:30 Speaker 2: scripture who dealt with this. The classic example is Eleija, right, yes,

14:36 Speaker 2: Elecha in First King stept in nineteen he had a

14:40 Speaker 2: tremendous sense of depression. There was a time when the

14:43 Speaker 2: apostle Paul said in First Corinthians or Second Corinthians. He

14:46 Speaker 2: said things were so bad I wanted to die. It

14:49 Speaker 2: was like suicidal depression. Or we talk about even Jonah,

14:54 Speaker 2: he was like so depressed and he was like I

14:56 Speaker 2: don't want to live anymore. And we also talk about

14:59 Speaker 2: Joe b. Think of it as like, look, job was

15:02 Speaker 2: so good he said, blessed be the name of the Lord.

15:04 Speaker 2: But that doesn't have to do Yeah, but the same

15:06 Speaker 2: job went to a point of pain where he said,

15:08 Speaker 2: curse by the day I was born. Yes, like he

15:10 Speaker 2: went through that. So the characters in the Word of

15:14 Speaker 2: God also went through what we went through or we

15:17 Speaker 2: are going through. It's just that they sought the Law's

15:21 Speaker 2: leading and help and healing through that process, and we

15:24 Speaker 2: need to do the same. So what's your take on that.

15:27 Speaker 4: I think it's so interesting to see God's heart for

15:32 Speaker 4: those who are struggling mentally right when they were emotionally

15:37 Speaker 4: in the depths of the depths. God did not judge them,

15:40 Speaker 4: God did not shun them. They were not disqualified from

15:44 Speaker 4: their colleague. Yes, God loved them. God cared for them.

15:49 Speaker 4: God told them to rest right. God met them in

15:53 Speaker 4: their humanness right. And so this idea of if you're

16:01 Speaker 4: struggling with depressive thoughts, or if you're feeling if you're

16:05 Speaker 4: feeling very anxious, it's because there is something wrong in

16:08 Speaker 4: your spiritual life, or that you're not spiritually strong, or

16:12 Speaker 4: you're not strong as a human being. They're all so incorrect, right,

16:17 Speaker 4: because to recognize or to assume that God does not

16:21 Speaker 4: love me, or there is something wrong in my relationship

16:23 Speaker 4: with him and that's why I'm struggling is really such

16:26 Speaker 4: a misconception around mental illness. Right. What really blows me

16:31 Speaker 4: away is God's heart for each of those characters.

16:35 Speaker 2: Right.

16:35 Speaker 4: God literally told Elijah he put him to sleep, and

16:38 Speaker 4: then he gave him food, and he gave him water,

16:40 Speaker 4: and he said, just rest. Even with Joe Job's friends

16:45 Speaker 4: came to him and said, I mean, I think they

16:47 Speaker 4: were talking amongst themselves or I'm not too sure. They said, yeah,

16:50 Speaker 4: I'm sure he's going through all of this because of sin. Right.

16:53 Speaker 4: And even if you see in the Book of John,

16:56 Speaker 4: the disciples that meet the blind man, they say, oh, yeah,

16:59 Speaker 4: who's sin cause him to be blind? And it was

17:02 Speaker 4: Jesus saying, no, it is. Of course, it can be

17:05 Speaker 4: sin sometimes the consequence of sin, but it's not always right,

17:09 Speaker 4: and to just know that God's heart is to heal

17:13 Speaker 4: and God's heart is to revive and restore, but we

17:16 Speaker 4: need to be willing to invite him into that space.

17:19 Speaker 4: And I think you beautifully said spiritual maturity.

17:22 Speaker 2: Right.

17:22 Speaker 3: We all want to grow in our faith.

17:24 Speaker 4: What if it means that in like, I can grow

17:28 Speaker 4: in my faith, and I can grow as a person,

17:30 Speaker 4: and I can become more like Jesus by learning to

17:33 Speaker 4: ask for help, by learning to access the tools that

17:36 Speaker 4: I need that only a professional can. I think you

17:39 Speaker 4: were blessed to be able to find the tools yourself

17:42 Speaker 4: in what you just shared and said, yeah, I found it.

17:44 Speaker 4: I was able to use it, and I was blessed.

17:46 Speaker 4: And in a couple of days I experienced that. But

17:48 Speaker 4: a lot of us, including myself, I could not find

17:51 Speaker 4: that in my dark days.

17:52 Speaker 3: I struggled with depression as well, and so I went

17:55 Speaker 3: for therapy.

17:56 Speaker 4: I went to a secular therapist, I went to a

17:58 Speaker 4: faith based therapist, and they were both blessed me because

18:02 Speaker 4: it was using the right tools.

18:04 Speaker 2: Right, That's so true, because see that's what we see

18:07 Speaker 2: all through the scripture, right, Like it's about the tools

18:10 Speaker 2: that you need. Like, for example, if I'm hungry, just

18:13 Speaker 2: coming and telling me that, Hey, you know what, you

18:15 Speaker 2: just have to have faith. You should sit and pray,

18:17 Speaker 2: fast and pray. I'm already fast thing, dude, you know

18:20 Speaker 2: what I mean? Like I'm what I need is physical food,

18:23 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, like you said about Elijah,

18:26 Speaker 2: I always go back to this. If somebody looked at

18:28 Speaker 2: Elijah at that point, they would have called him the

18:31 Speaker 2: laziest goes on earth. This guy's eating and sleeping, eating

18:34 Speaker 2: and sleeping, but they don't know what is happening. You know,

18:37 Speaker 2: sometimes we judge ourselves or we judge somebody else looking

18:41 Speaker 2: at the season when and like, how can you just

18:43 Speaker 2: eat and sleep? How can you be lazy? How can

18:45 Speaker 2: you not be more intentional about taking a step? But

18:49 Speaker 2: understand the pain that you're in is something that's real,

18:52 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, what is your take

18:55 Speaker 2: on helping people understand you talk about the neurological part

19:00 Speaker 2: or it's that neuroscience part of it. I can you

19:03 Speaker 2: help us understand that part because a lot of people

19:06 Speaker 2: think it's just in your mind, you know, just get

19:08 Speaker 2: out of it, get out of your bed, Like I mean,

19:10 Speaker 2: if I could, I would, you know, what I mean. So,

19:13 Speaker 2: can you talk a little bit about that.

19:14 Speaker 3: Absolutely.

19:16 Speaker 4: So, the brain is one of the most incredible machines

19:21 Speaker 4: that we have ever come across, right, And God is

19:24 Speaker 4: such a creative.

19:25 Speaker 3: Intelligent, incredible God in the way that he built our brain.

19:30 Speaker 4: It's made up of billions of cells, billions of neurons,

19:33 Speaker 4: and these neurons are constantly talking to each other through

19:37 Speaker 4: these chemicals called neurotransmitters.

19:39 Speaker 3: Okay, so you.

19:40 Speaker 4: Have all these different parts of the brain being able

19:42 Speaker 4: to communicate effectively with each other. But when you are

19:46 Speaker 4: going through depression, those communication systems stop working. They're not

19:51 Speaker 4: really communicating to each other properly. And so some of

19:55 Speaker 4: those neurotransmitters can be serotonin.

19:58 Speaker 3: I think a lot of us have heard about serotonin.

20:00 Speaker 4: It's the one that boosts your mood, it helps you

20:03 Speaker 4: sleep better, it helps you feel good that instantly drops.

20:08 Speaker 4: And then there's dopamine. A lot of us know about

20:10 Speaker 4: dopamine as well. We're all looking for dopamine hits, right,

20:13 Speaker 4: That's why we're doom scrolling because it gives us that

20:16 Speaker 4: dopamine hit. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter that helps with motivation

20:20 Speaker 4: and drive and it's the thing that keeps us interested

20:22 Speaker 4: in doing certain hobbies or tasks. And the third one

20:26 Speaker 4: is not epinephrin, which again is responsible for giving us

20:30 Speaker 4: energy and motivation and helping us do things. You know,

20:34 Speaker 4: really well, just imagine that all these levels in your

20:38 Speaker 4: brain are imbalanced, telling someone just get out of it

20:43 Speaker 4: on your own, or just you know, put all your strength,

20:47 Speaker 4: and you know what is that if you just will

20:52 Speaker 4: yourself to get better, you will get better.

20:54 Speaker 3: And this is all in your head is.

20:57 Speaker 4: Inaccurate because depression shows up on brain scans.

21:01 Speaker 3: The brain of somebody who's.

21:03 Speaker 4: Going through depression looks very different from.

21:07 Speaker 3: The brain of someone who.

21:08 Speaker 4: Is not, because those chemical levels itself are imbalanced.

21:12 Speaker 3: Right.

21:12 Speaker 4: The other thing is we have a particular part of

21:15 Speaker 4: the brain called the amygdala, which is responsible for emotional regulation,

21:20 Speaker 4: so that one kind of goes into hyper alert mode,

21:23 Speaker 4: so it starts becoming hyper sensitive to all of the

21:27 Speaker 4: things that would typically not trigger us. So, for example,

21:32 Speaker 4: because the amygdala is not working properly, we tend to

21:34 Speaker 4: get fixated more on the problems or things that are

21:37 Speaker 4: not going well, which is why when someone is depressed,

21:40 Speaker 4: they're constantly thinking negatively. It's because the amygdala is not

21:44 Speaker 4: able to communicate well with the other parts of the

21:47 Speaker 4: brain and it is not really working to its full capacity.

21:51 Speaker 4: And then there is something known as the prefantle contex,

21:53 Speaker 4: which is the thinking part of our brain, supposed to

21:55 Speaker 4: make decisions, supposed to motivate us to do our tasks,

21:59 Speaker 4: which is why a lot of like one of the

22:01 Speaker 4: things that when I struggled with depression was indecisiveness.

22:04 Speaker 3: I just couldn't make the most.

22:06 Speaker 4: Simplest of decisions, and the smallest of tasks like getting

22:10 Speaker 4: out of bed or I don't know, taking a shower

22:13 Speaker 4: was so difficult. Right, it's because all of these different

22:18 Speaker 4: parts of the brain are imbalanced and the chemicals that

22:21 Speaker 4: are supposed to be messengers are not working properly right,

22:26 Speaker 4: and so quite literally, on a on a like neurological level,

22:31 Speaker 4: there are evidences of something not working and the only

22:35 Speaker 4: way to change that is by actively strengthening certain parts

22:40 Speaker 4: of the brain through tools therapeutic you know, exercises, or

22:44 Speaker 4: through medication, right, because you are you have to restore

22:48 Speaker 4: that chemical balance in the brain. So that really is

22:51 Speaker 4: what happens with depression or anxiety or any of the

22:55 Speaker 4: mental illnesses.

22:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, so for some of you, maybe something brand new

23:01 Speaker 2: because you're just saying like, oh, all I thought it

23:04 Speaker 2: was is in the mind, But then you're actually talking

23:07 Speaker 2: about what is happening behind it, the signs behind it,

23:10 Speaker 2: and you may say, well, it's not in the scripture. Well,

23:13 Speaker 2: a lot of things were written based on the understanding

23:16 Speaker 2: that people had back in the day. Now what I mean, Like,

23:19 Speaker 2: for example, when this scripture says God made to big

23:22 Speaker 2: lights sun and the moon, you know, it doesn't talk

23:25 Speaker 2: about Jupiter or Mars. It doesn't mean that Jupiter or

23:29 Speaker 2: Mars were not created by God. It's because based on

23:32 Speaker 2: the understanding that people had back then, the scripture was

23:35 Speaker 2: written in that sense, you know, so that people can follow.

23:39 Speaker 2: Like I think there's a fun fact that I came

23:42 Speaker 2: across ones that the Bible says in the Book of Revelations.

23:45 Speaker 2: I think in the last days the sun will be

23:48 Speaker 2: more bright or something on those lines, so which could

23:50 Speaker 2: actually be a reflection of global warming for example, So

23:55 Speaker 2: people never knew about global warming back then, but then

23:58 Speaker 2: the scripture is talking about something in line with that,

24:01 Speaker 2: you know, based on what people could understand back then.

24:04 Speaker 2: So on a similar note, right, now people look at

24:07 Speaker 2: something and say, hey, this is not in the scripture,

24:09 Speaker 2: but this is something written in the world, like for example,

24:14 Speaker 2: things like in Philippians. It's says, so I think of

24:16 Speaker 2: these things that are good, but now we are true

24:19 Speaker 2: saying about how some people cannot even think because they're

24:23 Speaker 2: going through those things. So I really pray that you know,

24:27 Speaker 2: people get to understand that, you know, this is something

24:30 Speaker 2: really serious and we need to take the right steps.

24:33 Speaker 2: So can you talk a little bit about the tools

24:35 Speaker 2: of therapy or the faith based therapy.

24:40 Speaker 4: Of course, so there are lots of different approaches and

24:45 Speaker 4: there are lots of different therapy techniques, but one of

24:49 Speaker 4: my favorite therapy techniques is something known as cognitive behavior therapy,

24:54 Speaker 4: also in as CBT. So CBT basically identifies the unhelpful

24:59 Speaker 4: thoughts because actually everything begins at the thought level. All

25:03 Speaker 4: of us notice our feelings, right, I'm angry, I'm sad,

25:06 Speaker 4: I'm upset, I'm scared, But the feeling actually follows the thought. Yes,

25:11 Speaker 4: there was always a thought that you know is the root,

25:14 Speaker 4: and then there's the feeling, and based on that feeling,

25:17 Speaker 4: we tend to respond or react to the situation.

25:20 Speaker 3: So how faith based therapy integrates.

25:24 Speaker 4: I mean, how faith based therapy uses something like CBT

25:26 Speaker 4: would be to be able to identify those unhelpful thoughts,

25:29 Speaker 4: that's what I do with my clients, and then to

25:32 Speaker 4: be able to counter it with scripture. Right, because just

25:36 Speaker 4: to add here, you mentioned certain things are not really

25:40 Speaker 4: mentioned in the Bible, right, I mean to just add

25:43 Speaker 4: to that and to say that science is only.

25:45 Speaker 3: Now catching up to scripture. Right.

25:48 Speaker 4: Thank God for science, and thank God for these studies

25:51 Speaker 4: and research which is helping us to understand how incredible

25:57 Speaker 4: God is in the way that he's built at and

26:00 Speaker 4: only now are we learning how some of those things

26:03 Speaker 4: actually work. Right, when when we see in the Book

26:06 Speaker 4: of Romans do not be conformed to the patterns of

26:09 Speaker 4: this world, but be renewed by the transfer, you know,

26:11 Speaker 4: but be transformed by the.

26:13 Speaker 3: Renewing of your mind.

26:14 Speaker 4: God knew that it was neuroplasticity, but now science has

26:18 Speaker 4: finally told, oh, by the way, here's this thing called neuroplasticity,

26:21 Speaker 4: and this is how it works. Right, And so really

26:25 Speaker 4: science is only now catching up, yeah, with scripture. And

26:29 Speaker 4: so that really is the approach I have to everything

26:33 Speaker 4: that there is the tool. But then the foundation of.

26:36 Speaker 3: It is scripture, It's the word of God.

26:39 Speaker 4: So sometimes I take references from different stories of the

26:42 Speaker 4: Bible or different incidents in the Bible to sort.

26:44 Speaker 3: Of speak to speak into a particular situation.

26:49 Speaker 4: And really it that that balance is so important, right,

26:53 Speaker 4: because sometimes I will have Christian clients coming in and

26:56 Speaker 4: sort of saying, yeah, I'm feeling like really low, and

26:59 Speaker 4: I think it's it's the attack of the enemy, and

27:01 Speaker 4: I'm sure the enemy is at work, and I just

27:03 Speaker 4: need to do this and that, and I need to

27:04 Speaker 4: go and fast for five days and six days and

27:07 Speaker 4: all of that is great, But I think as Christians

27:10 Speaker 4: we tend to over spiritualize a little bit. So there

27:14 Speaker 4: is a balance between knowing what is, you know, the

27:17 Speaker 4: attack of the enemy, and of course engaging in the

27:21 Speaker 4: spiritual weapons that God has given us and knowing how

27:24 Speaker 4: to address this from a very practical cognitive standpoint, and

27:30 Speaker 4: that discernment we cannot do on our own. It helps

27:34 Speaker 4: when there is a neutral person in that space, like

27:37 Speaker 4: a therapist, like a professional, because they are unbiased. They

27:40 Speaker 4: don't know you, they don't know anything else, so they're

27:43 Speaker 4: able to see your situation from a very neutral perspective

27:47 Speaker 4: and give you input that is very helpful.

27:51 Speaker 3: Right, That really is what mentoring is. Right.

27:53 Speaker 4: Why do we go to our mentors in our church

27:56 Speaker 4: spaces is because they give us that wisdom and that

27:58 Speaker 4: different perspective.

28:00 Speaker 3: So, yeah, that really is.

28:01 Speaker 4: A little bit about how therapy works on a practical level.

28:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so needed, and especially like the way you

28:08 Speaker 2: shared about knowing the difference between understanding what's the spiritual

28:12 Speaker 2: warfare and what actually requires of you to take a step, Yes,

28:16 Speaker 2: because if you're not doing that, like, for example, if

28:19 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh, I have headache and I just take

28:21 Speaker 2: a painkiller like paracetamol, what if some I mean, I

28:24 Speaker 2: want to say it in a negative way, but what

28:26 Speaker 2: if it was actually a tumor for example? Right, So

28:28 Speaker 2: if you're thinking like oh, I just want to pray

28:31 Speaker 2: this away or I just think that it should go away.

28:34 Speaker 2: But certain things you need to be intentional about taking

28:38 Speaker 2: those steps, right like you. I like the way you

28:41 Speaker 2: mentioned that sometimes you take decisions based on what you know,

28:44 Speaker 2: but when somebody else comes into the scene, they give

28:47 Speaker 2: you clarity of things that you may not have thought about.

28:51 Speaker 2: Like I think there was a moment where a Hosis

28:53 Speaker 2: was trying to deal with the people, and his father

28:56 Speaker 2: in law had to come and give him a different

28:57 Speaker 2: idea or perspective that he didn't think about before. So

29:01 Speaker 2: sometimes it's all about, you know, being in that place.

29:04 Speaker 2: Like again, it goes back to the place of humility,

29:06 Speaker 2: saying God, you know what I am willing to be

29:08 Speaker 2: like an open book. I always have that approach of life.

29:11 Speaker 2: So at the same time, you allow God to guide

29:14 Speaker 2: you and tell you if something is not of him

29:16 Speaker 2: as well. When you talk about various things that people

29:19 Speaker 2: deal with, right, like we let's focus on a holistic

29:22 Speaker 2: approach because I want people to go to your podcast

29:26 Speaker 2: and check the specifics that they may be dealing with. Guys,

29:29 Speaker 2: I want you to do it after this episode, not now. Okay,

29:32 Speaker 2: So the thing is, like, on a holistic approach, what

29:36 Speaker 2: are some practical tools that people can use to have

29:40 Speaker 2: a better mental health?

29:41 Speaker 4: Given that we're talking about it from a very general

29:44 Speaker 4: point of view, I think the simplest thing that we

29:47 Speaker 4: can do is to just be aware. Sometimes a lot

29:51 Speaker 4: of us don't heal or overcome certain things because we're

29:55 Speaker 4: not ready to deal with it. And how can you

29:57 Speaker 4: deal with something that you're not aware of, right, And

30:00 Speaker 4: so the first thing is to be able to bring

30:02 Speaker 4: it to awareness, to check in with yourself and say

30:05 Speaker 4: and ask what.

30:06 Speaker 3: Am I feeling? What am I thinking right now? And

30:09 Speaker 3: to be able to name that. You know, am I

30:11 Speaker 3: feeling anxious?

30:12 Speaker 4: Or am I feeling confused or stressed or overwhelmed or

30:15 Speaker 4: helpless or angry or hostile or jealous? The minute you

30:20 Speaker 4: label it. The minute you label it, you're externalizing it.

30:24 Speaker 4: It's not something that's you know, it's not something that's

30:29 Speaker 4: intrinsic to you, but it is something that's external.

30:32 Speaker 3: And so you're dealing.

30:33 Speaker 4: With the problem once you're aware, to be able to

30:37 Speaker 4: ask what is in your control and what is out

30:39 Speaker 4: of your control in that situation, and then to be

30:42 Speaker 4: able to move into what is the tool that I

30:45 Speaker 4: need to use in that particular setting. Right, Because we're

30:48 Speaker 4: speaking from a very general point of view, I think

30:51 Speaker 4: the easiest skill that we can all access is emotional regulation.

30:56 Speaker 4: A lot of us suggests like, oh, I wish I

30:59 Speaker 4: reacted better in that situation, or sometimes I feel like

31:01 Speaker 4: my emotions get the best of me, or I'm not

31:04 Speaker 4: able to understand what I'm feeling. So emotional regulation works

31:08 Speaker 4: on the fact that you take the time to label

31:11 Speaker 4: and understand what you're feeling and then to be able

31:14 Speaker 4: to respond to it. Sorry, it works on labeling and

31:18 Speaker 4: understanding what you're feeling and then being curious about where

31:22 Speaker 4: that feeling is coming from, right, what is the thought

31:25 Speaker 4: underlying that feeling, and to be able to counter that thought,

31:29 Speaker 4: because really, for every thought and every struggle.

31:32 Speaker 3: That we have, there is a verse to counter it.

31:35 Speaker 4: And so I think the most simplest thing would be

31:38 Speaker 4: take a journal, write down these thoughts that are causing

31:42 Speaker 4: these feelings and find a verse to counter it, challenge it,

31:47 Speaker 4: or cancel it.

31:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so good. That's so good because actually, when

31:52 Speaker 2: you were sharing this, I was reminded, like I mentioned

31:55 Speaker 2: about Larry Krab's the counseling thing, right, like, because I've

31:58 Speaker 2: done like a course on cowsling many years ago. So

32:03 Speaker 2: that's how I was able to concert myself. You're asking

32:06 Speaker 2: how I found that thing, because for me, that's how

32:09 Speaker 2: over time what happened to me was like I was,

32:12 Speaker 2: the steps followed are very similar. Like even if it's

32:15 Speaker 2: not a mental health issue, even if it's a behavioral

32:18 Speaker 2: issue or something, what we do is like seven stages.

32:22 Speaker 2: Like first this, like you said, it starts with a thought, right,

32:25 Speaker 2: like we looking at the behavior and we are wondering

32:28 Speaker 2: why this behavior, and then we study the words that

32:31 Speaker 2: come out of your mouth. Then you see it's because

32:34 Speaker 2: of the thoughts, and the thoughts come down to checking

32:37 Speaker 2: what is the root foundation thing, you know what I mean?

32:40 Speaker 2: Like for example, let me give it myself as an example. Right,

32:45 Speaker 2: ever since I was young, I was always put down

32:47 Speaker 2: for especially the color of my skin, which gave me

32:49 Speaker 2: a big insecurity issue. So on the outside, you know,

32:53 Speaker 2: even Manuel knows this. But you'll ask me to smile,

32:56 Speaker 2: I'll never smile in my teets, okay, And I'm like,

33:00 Speaker 2: I'm not able to do it like behavior, and then

33:02 Speaker 2: I tell them like no, I don't look good. I

33:04 Speaker 2: don't want to do this, And then comes to the

33:06 Speaker 2: thought level, it's like, oh, I'm not looking fine, and

33:10 Speaker 2: then the root issue is nothing to do with smiling.

33:13 Speaker 2: It had something to do with the deep issue of

33:16 Speaker 2: you know, insecurity that was because of what happened. Then

33:20 Speaker 2: I have to deal with the like changing Like you're

33:23 Speaker 2: talking about changing the mind, right, you change? What is

33:26 Speaker 2: the scripture talking about it? Like your fearfully and wonderfully made.

33:29 Speaker 2: You're made in the image of God. You're a masterpiece

33:31 Speaker 2: of God God's workmanship. So you change your innermost tape recorder,

33:38 Speaker 2: so to speak, you know, in your mind, and then

33:40 Speaker 2: what happens You start thinking according to that because the

33:43 Speaker 2: Bible says has some man think it's so a see,

33:45 Speaker 2: So your mind starts thinking in that way, your words

33:48 Speaker 2: starts changing accordingly, and then your behavior will change. You

33:52 Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like, so that's a very

33:54 Speaker 2: similar thing that I keep doing and I keep telling

33:56 Speaker 2: people as well. So what you shared is the same thing,

34:00 Speaker 2: but we follow this pattern so that we can change

34:03 Speaker 2: our mind. And the other thing you spoke about writing

34:07 Speaker 2: as well, right, Like, there's so much that you can

34:10 Speaker 2: have in your mind, but when you put it out there,

34:12 Speaker 2: when you write, it can be in the form of writing.

34:14 Speaker 2: Writing is one great thing. Or if you don't like writing,

34:17 Speaker 2: you can speak it out, like you have so many

34:20 Speaker 2: places where you can have like a on online audio

34:23 Speaker 2: journal or something like that. You can speak it out

34:26 Speaker 2: or write or express. One of the things that helped me,

34:29 Speaker 2: especially dealing with insecurity, is you know, I love taking

34:33 Speaker 2: photos of myself photos of video shoots. So what happened

34:36 Speaker 2: is sometimes for me, one of my quote unquote therapy

34:40 Speaker 2: tools would be to take photo shoots a video shoots.

34:43 Speaker 2: So when I take these high quality photos and video,

34:45 Speaker 2: sometimes I fall in love with myself, you know what

34:47 Speaker 2: I mean. It's like, oh my gosh, like I look

34:50 Speaker 2: like this model or I look good. You know, when

34:52 Speaker 2: that actually helped me in how I deal with myself,

34:56 Speaker 2: like in this sense, like how I see myself, you know,

34:59 Speaker 2: when I'm so on a similar note, like finding your

35:02 Speaker 2: own unique tools that like for example, maybe your therapist guys,

35:07 Speaker 2: I challenge you to check it up, can give you

35:10 Speaker 2: what works for you and that unique thing that you

35:13 Speaker 2: can have and also follow certain things which are very practical,

35:17 Speaker 2: like you know, going back to this of how God

35:20 Speaker 2: gave Elijah not an instruction of fast and pray for

35:23 Speaker 2: five days, but rather just eat and drink and sleep,

35:26 Speaker 2: you know, sometimes take care of your physical health. You know,

35:30 Speaker 2: sometimes I remember and I'm just too tired. I just

35:34 Speaker 2: I go for swimming every day. So the minute I

35:36 Speaker 2: go and swim, I don't know, Like even this morning,

35:40 Speaker 2: I was so clouded with so many things when swam

35:43 Speaker 2: for one hour I'm supposed to be more tired, but

35:45 Speaker 2: then coming back, I'm so much better, brighter. So what

35:50 Speaker 2: I'm saying is taking care of your physical body, taking

35:53 Speaker 2: care of your health, all of those things actually help

35:56 Speaker 2: you have a holistic mental health as well. So just

36:00 Speaker 2: handing on to order, you said, yeah, but I really

36:03 Speaker 2: hope guys, these things help you in your you know,

36:06 Speaker 2: overall mental health. I mean, so that you are able

36:10 Speaker 2: to do that better.

36:11 Speaker 4: But just to add one more thing, sure, just to

36:15 Speaker 4: add one more thing. Self compassion is so underrated, right,

36:20 Speaker 4: And I think when you are sharing about how you

36:22 Speaker 4: look at pictures of yourself and you use like you

36:26 Speaker 4: were actually changing the narrative in your head. Right, you

36:29 Speaker 4: were finding new words to talk about the way you

36:33 Speaker 4: look or you appear in so the color of your skin,

36:35 Speaker 4: and you spoke with the language of love.

36:38 Speaker 3: Right.

36:39 Speaker 4: Sometimes we don't speak to ourselves kindly because we're so

36:43 Speaker 4: terrified of becoming proud. To the point, I don't think

36:47 Speaker 4: pride is the issue. I think self condemnation is the issue.

36:51 Speaker 3: Right.

36:51 Speaker 4: That inner critic is left unchecked in most of us,

36:55 Speaker 4: and I think especially among Christians, the inner critic is

36:59 Speaker 4: extra loud because we say but we need that regulative

37:04 Speaker 4: voice to make sure we're on the right path and

37:07 Speaker 4: the right track, and we're growing correctly, and we're doing

37:10 Speaker 4: all the things that are you know, right in the

37:12 Speaker 4: eyes of God. But if you are experiencing condemnation, it's

37:17 Speaker 4: not of God. And so self compassion, what does that mean.

37:20 Speaker 4: It is to speak kindly to yourself. It is to

37:23 Speaker 4: find one thing to appreciate about yourself at the end

37:25 Speaker 4: of the day. Something I tell on a very practical

37:29 Speaker 4: level to my clients is take us post it or

37:32 Speaker 4: a sticky note, write something nice about yourself. Put it

37:35 Speaker 4: on your mirror, so that when you're brushing your teeth

37:38 Speaker 4: it's something that you just look at. You know, we

37:40 Speaker 4: consume so much content. What if we consume these words

37:43 Speaker 4: of love that we have to speak to ourselves. And

37:47 Speaker 4: God invites us to love ourselves, isn't it. It is

37:49 Speaker 4: not pride, it is not arrogance.

37:52 Speaker 2: But it's easier to be kind to a million people

37:56 Speaker 2: than to ourselves.

37:57 Speaker 3: Always.

37:58 Speaker 4: Always, yeah, that is not that's really not how God

38:03 Speaker 4: wants us to treat ourselves.

38:05 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's one of the things. What I

38:08 Speaker 2: did was I put frames of myself with the high

38:11 Speaker 2: quality photos. I frame them with some of them with

38:14 Speaker 2: the Bible verse or something. So what happens? I keep

38:18 Speaker 2: them in the room, so I keep looking at I'm like, Okay,

38:21 Speaker 2: this is what the scripture says, this is who I am,

38:24 Speaker 2: or you know, things like that. So this is something

38:26 Speaker 2: that worked for me. I'm not saying it. Everything will

38:28 Speaker 2: work the same way for each person. And that's why

38:31 Speaker 2: taking the right steps or maybe the help of a

38:34 Speaker 2: counselor or a therapist will help in that regard. So

38:37 Speaker 2: what is your word for the Body of Christ or

38:41 Speaker 2: how churches can you know, deal with this whole issue

38:44 Speaker 2: in the right way.

38:46 Speaker 4: Yeah, I really like my heart's desire is that the

38:51 Speaker 4: church and mental health professionals work collaboratively, right, I think there.

38:58 Speaker 3: Is early such a I don't know.

39:02 Speaker 4: There sometimes seems to be points of friction between the

39:05 Speaker 4: church and mental health professionals because mental health professionals are

39:09 Speaker 4: trying to pull people away from over spiritualizing, and pastors

39:14 Speaker 4: and church leaders are worried that if they send their

39:17 Speaker 4: flock to, you know, a therapist, it probably is showing

39:22 Speaker 4: that they are not qualified enough to deal with their

39:26 Speaker 4: you know, deal with their people and deal with their congregation,

39:29 Speaker 4: and so it really I think there's such a problematic

39:32 Speaker 4: relationship between these two areas when actually, if we can

39:36 Speaker 4: work together, you know what wonders, right, we can really

39:40 Speaker 4: do so much for God's kingdom, and that is God's

39:45 Speaker 4: heart is for us to be able to work together

39:46 Speaker 4: as one body, right.

39:48 Speaker 3: And so.

39:50 Speaker 4: One thing I would really say is for the church,

39:53 Speaker 4: and I think I see that happening a lot in

39:55 Speaker 4: India yea, where church spaces are posting workshops or mental

39:59 Speaker 4: health issues or bringing awareness on topics that are not

40:04 Speaker 4: discussed like suicide or anxiety or burnout or whatever that

40:10 Speaker 4: might be the things that we just tend to listen

40:14 Speaker 4: to sermons on. You know, they are inviting professionals and saying, hey, let's.

40:17 Speaker 3: Talk about this together.

40:19 Speaker 4: And so the church is opening up spaces for mental

40:23 Speaker 4: health to be discussed and so it's no longer one

40:25 Speaker 4: of those things that you have to deal with on

40:27 Speaker 4: your own, but it's out in the open.

40:29 Speaker 3: That would be Number one.

40:30 Speaker 4: Second is it's incredible to see a lot of pastors

40:33 Speaker 4: and church leaders refer their members of the church, refer

40:39 Speaker 4: members of the church to therapists and say, hey, this is.

40:42 Speaker 3: Where we are going to back you up in.

40:45 Speaker 4: Your journey of healing, but I think you should seek

40:47 Speaker 4: professional help, right, And I think it's supposed to be

40:53 Speaker 4: a harmonious relationship.

40:55 Speaker 2: But I really like that when you said that there

40:58 Speaker 2: are churches that are opening up, and I really want

41:01 Speaker 2: that to be the case, like in the sense, not

41:03 Speaker 2: just about this aspect, but you know, I think we

41:06 Speaker 2: were talking about this before. I says and as well,

41:08 Speaker 2: that we need that unity in the Body of Christ.

41:11 Speaker 2: You know, the Scripture talks about, of course the five

41:13 Speaker 2: fold ministry you see, you know, the apostles, profits, evangelists, teachers,

41:18 Speaker 2: and masters, but there are other gifts as well, surveying, counseling,

41:23 Speaker 2: And I think the most effective way to build a

41:28 Speaker 2: Body of Christ together, build the Kingdom of God together,

41:31 Speaker 2: is to understand, like you know what, I'm not building

41:33 Speaker 2: my church, I'm building the Kingdom of God. So if

41:37 Speaker 2: I'm a pastor, I know what I can do, Like

41:40 Speaker 2: a pastor has his limitations and a therapist knows their

41:45 Speaker 2: part to play. So that's how we can actually build

41:49 Speaker 2: a kingdom together. You know, That's been my heart as well,

41:52 Speaker 2: Like you know, even as a podcast, like we're doing

41:54 Speaker 2: this collaboration. My heart is somebody who's watching this, you know,

41:58 Speaker 2: maybe they came to know about you through my podcast.

42:01 Speaker 2: So they should be in a place where they're like, oh,

42:03 Speaker 2: I am having these challenges and they should come to

42:05 Speaker 2: your podcast and somebody who's checking this out through you,

42:09 Speaker 2: you know, when you share this around, they should be like, Okay,

42:11 Speaker 2: there's some insights that I'll be blessed with and they

42:14 Speaker 2: need to check mine. So it should be a place

42:16 Speaker 2: where there's no competition or insecurity, like oh, it's my crowd,

42:21 Speaker 2: your crowd. No. I really pray that the Body of

42:23 Speaker 2: Christ comes to that unity where they understand, like like

42:26 Speaker 2: you said, you know, we like there are those who

42:30 Speaker 2: are happy that they're taking therapy and things like that.

42:33 Speaker 2: So let's pray that this culture builds up, especially in

42:37 Speaker 2: the nation of India, that people are okay to understand, Okay,

42:40 Speaker 2: this is my role to play, this is the therapist,

42:43 Speaker 2: therapist's role to play, and then there will be that

42:46 Speaker 2: unity that actually brings in the deliverance that is required.

42:50 Speaker 2: Because I'll be honest with you, right. For example, what

42:53 Speaker 2: I've seen is sometimes I have seen quote unquote pastors

42:56 Speaker 2: take sessions on how to deal with burnouts, how to

42:59 Speaker 2: deal with stress example, And I still remember this person.

43:02 Speaker 2: I'm not putting anybody down, but I remember the session

43:04 Speaker 2: on something on those lines, and he was giving very

43:08 Speaker 2: basic idea like you know, you should trust God more.

43:10 Speaker 2: And I was thinking, I mean, I'm not saying anything

43:13 Speaker 2: against trusting God, but what I'm saying is, this person

43:18 Speaker 2: has no idea what is the actual level of stress

43:20 Speaker 2: or what is happening in the corporate sector for the

43:24 Speaker 2: people he was addressed. You know what I mean, Like,

43:27 Speaker 2: for example, when I talk on the same topic, I

43:30 Speaker 2: know what it means because I'm working. I'm an aerospace engineer, right,

43:34 Speaker 2: so I know what happens in the corporate sector. I

43:37 Speaker 2: know what it means to like for example, when there's

43:39 Speaker 2: a layoff. The simple example that you get from pastors.

43:43 Speaker 2: I'm not putting everyone out. I'm just saying from a

43:45 Speaker 2: lot of ministry leaders is oh, just trust God, pray.

43:48 Speaker 2: God will leave you a job. But then what emotional

43:52 Speaker 2: journey you go through? You know, it affects your you

43:56 Speaker 2: question yourself, your word, it affects you. They just say like, oh,

44:01 Speaker 2: you're not praying enough. That's so you can't get a job.

44:03 Speaker 2: You know, so all of these things, well, how the

44:05 Speaker 2: priactical journey looks like. So when I deal with the

44:09 Speaker 2: same topic recently, I released the video on you know, layoffs,

44:13 Speaker 2: how to deal with layoffs. But from my perspective of

44:16 Speaker 2: not a journey with God, you know, it makes a difference.

44:20 Speaker 2: So what I'm trying to tell people is like, we're

44:22 Speaker 2: not putting somebody down. You're not saying a pastor or

44:26 Speaker 2: a leader, We're not putting somebody down. But what you're

44:28 Speaker 2: saying is everyone should know their role and their capability

44:33 Speaker 2: and understand where they're coming from. And then within that space,

44:38 Speaker 2: when you operate and you allow somebody else to operate

44:40 Speaker 2: in the space that they're designed to, that's when the

44:43 Speaker 2: body of Christ can be edified. So I really want

44:46 Speaker 2: that to be the case. So a little bit of

44:49 Speaker 2: fun at this point of time. Now, if you could

44:52 Speaker 2: counsel somebody in the Bible, who would that be?

44:56 Speaker 3: I think I can really to Moses a lot.

45:01 Speaker 4: So maybe Moses he struggled with so much self doubt, right,

45:06 Speaker 4: and he was so quick to discount himself when God

45:10 Speaker 4: called him.

45:10 Speaker 3: Saying, no, God, but I have a stutter, No, but

45:12 Speaker 3: I have this no but I'm not capable.

45:15 Speaker 4: But knowing his entire life, I think when we know

45:18 Speaker 4: the whole story and the whole timeline, we can say, yeah,

45:21 Speaker 4: of course Moses was an incredible leader, but he went

45:24 Speaker 4: through some very real struggles, right. There was a lot

45:27 Speaker 4: of self doubt, and I think, like a lot of

45:30 Speaker 4: leaders in the church, he had quite a lonely journey

45:33 Speaker 4: in that he was a leader. Of course, he had

45:35 Speaker 4: Aaron and Miriam, but at the end of the day,

45:37 Speaker 4: there were many things that many decisions he had to

45:39 Speaker 4: take alone, right, And so I think I would be

45:43 Speaker 4: very happy to be his therapist and to encourage him

45:46 Speaker 4: and to invite him to restructure some of those unhelpful

45:50 Speaker 4: thoughts of self doubt and anxiety, or even those moments

45:55 Speaker 4: when he got angry and upset.

45:57 Speaker 3: Teach him to regulate that anger a little bit.

46:01 Speaker 2: That's nice, That's nice.

46:04 Speaker 4: I would actually take David as the most excellent example

46:09 Speaker 4: of someone who just journaled very vulnerably and was very real.

46:15 Speaker 4: He did not filter. You know, my God, why have

46:18 Speaker 4: you forsaken me? I'm in anguished. My pillow is wet

46:21 Speaker 4: with tears. I am not able to eat, I'm not

46:24 Speaker 4: able to sleep.

46:25 Speaker 3: He did not.

46:25 Speaker 4: Hold back, right, and those were his prayers and God

46:29 Speaker 4: loved those prayers because God wants all of us, and

46:32 Speaker 4: he wants us to be vulnerable and come as we are.

46:34 Speaker 3: And we see.

46:35 Speaker 4: David an incredible, you know, king and a man with

46:40 Speaker 4: so much power, being so real and so broken and

46:44 Speaker 4: so weak in the presence of God because he knew

46:47 Speaker 4: that God will meet him where he's at. And so

46:50 Speaker 4: I would probably love to have sat with him while

46:54 Speaker 4: he journaled, trying to understand what his thought process were.

46:58 Speaker 2: That's good, that's good. I really love that. Yeah, we

47:01 Speaker 2: need to be like open without any filters before God,

47:04 Speaker 2: and that makes a huge difference. Our next question is

47:07 Speaker 2: if Joe walked into the room as a counselor of

47:10 Speaker 2: what would be your first question of what would you

47:13 Speaker 2: just say to him?

47:15 Speaker 4: I would give Joe a hug, you know, because he,

47:20 Speaker 4: I mean, what resilience, what resilience that stems from having

47:26 Speaker 4: such faith in God. And I think he's an excellent

47:30 Speaker 4: example of you know, not looking inward, but he was

47:34 Speaker 4: so fixed on God and just relied on God throughout.

47:37 Speaker 4: So I would really, you know, remind him that that

47:43 Speaker 4: is his strength because he's feeling like everything, he's lost everything,

47:47 Speaker 4: and he's also maybe blaming himself.

47:49 Speaker 3: So I would probably say.

47:51 Speaker 4: No, do the things that you did before, which was

47:54 Speaker 4: call on God and trust in him and fix on

47:56 Speaker 4: who God.

47:56 Speaker 3: Fix your eyes on who God is, and not fix

47:59 Speaker 3: your eyes on who you are.

48:01 Speaker 4: Right, he did not focus or allow his circumstances to

48:06 Speaker 4: determine his worship or.

48:08 Speaker 3: The way he saw God.

48:10 Speaker 4: But he really he allowed the way he saw God

48:14 Speaker 4: to determine how he approached to circumstances.

48:16 Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's so beautiful.

48:19 Speaker 2: Allot of the way he started with, like I want

48:20 Speaker 2: to give him a hug. Yeah, sometimes guys just giving

48:23 Speaker 2: a hug and a smile can go a long way.

48:26 Speaker 2: So that is so needed. A last fun question because

48:30 Speaker 2: we have Scooby Doo here, So if you were to

48:33 Speaker 2: give any advice to the Scooby Doo gang, you're seeing

48:37 Speaker 2: them running around at the same time they team up,

48:40 Speaker 2: but on a counseling perspective, what would you give them,

48:43 Speaker 2: like when they're scared, when they're facing struggles like Scooby

48:48 Speaker 2: is like, So when Scooby that's that, what are you

48:52 Speaker 2: going to do?

48:53 Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm going to get super technical here.

48:57 Speaker 4: I think Shaggy right, yes, Scooby, Yeah, I think Shaggy.

49:01 Speaker 3: And Scooby have a very co dependent relationship.

49:04 Speaker 4: I think it can be a little unhealthy sometimes, So

49:08 Speaker 4: maybe they need to have a healthy balance in their

49:11 Speaker 4: friendship and maybe raw some boundaries and not depend on

49:16 Speaker 4: each other so much for validation and for their plans.

49:19 Speaker 4: Like I think Shaggy would always follow Scooby do.

49:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

49:25 Speaker 4: Sorry, I think Shaggy would always follow Scooby around, And

49:27 Speaker 4: so I would say Shaggy have a mind of your own.

49:30 Speaker 4: And but yeah, that's just a very playful take on yeah.

49:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's but all of these even though they're fun takes,

49:38 Speaker 2: there are practical things Shanning right, like learning to set boundaries,

49:42 Speaker 2: and like I was talking to you earlier that I

49:45 Speaker 2: call my Doggie as my sister. So for me, I'm

49:49 Speaker 2: so excited I have a little sister. But like, in

49:52 Speaker 2: a similar note, like we know where to set boundaries

49:55 Speaker 2: and so many things that we can learn and learn

49:57 Speaker 2: and take away. This is something I've never seen anyone

49:59 Speaker 2: talk about it, you know, Shaggy and Scooby, you guys,

50:07 Speaker 2: but it's pretty cool, pretty cool. So where can people

50:10 Speaker 2: find your podcast.

50:12 Speaker 3: On YouTube and on Spotify.

50:14 Speaker 2: And how can people stay in touch with you?

50:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, they can drop me an email.

50:18 Speaker 4: Maybe we can tag the email lightly at the bottom

50:21 Speaker 4: or even yeah, definitely connect with me on Instagram.

50:24 Speaker 2: Sounds good. So we'll come up to almost the end

50:27 Speaker 2: of the session. But what I usually do at the

50:29 Speaker 2: end is I always pray for the guest and I

50:32 Speaker 2: also recommend those who are watching to also pray for you,

50:35 Speaker 2: And then I would ask you to pray for me,

50:38 Speaker 2: the podcast and the guests before there are any words

50:41 Speaker 2: you want to share about me and the podcast, your

50:44 Speaker 2: experience and whatever you know before as well.

50:50 Speaker 4: I think, I mean, it was so amazing that we

50:53 Speaker 4: got that, like while the setup was happening, that we

50:55 Speaker 4: got that time to just have that conversation, and it's

50:59 Speaker 4: it's so amazing to see how you've been in this

51:02 Speaker 4: industry for fourteen years, you've been in this space, and

51:05 Speaker 4: just your heart to be so faithful, John, I think

51:08 Speaker 4: that's to me that was so inspiring.

51:10 Speaker 3: And I think it to.

51:12 Speaker 4: Also recognize that you could not have done this on

51:15 Speaker 4: your own strength, and so just allowing God to use

51:19 Speaker 4: you and to reveal his heart through you is so inspiring,

51:24 Speaker 4: and it shows the kind of relationship you have with

51:26 Speaker 4: God and just how closely you walk with Him in

51:29 Speaker 4: that you're able to do this without hitting burnout. Right,

51:33 Speaker 4: That can only be God.

51:35 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank.

51:36 Speaker 2: You so much. So what can we pray for you?

51:43 Speaker 4: I think it's very recently that I've recognized that the

51:46 Speaker 4: work I do is also ministry. So to start viewing

51:49 Speaker 4: the work that I do as ministry, that I will

51:52 Speaker 4: be able to bless many through faith based therapy, and

51:59 Speaker 4: that I will learn what it means to rely on

52:01 Speaker 4: God and not on my own abilities and.

52:04 Speaker 3: My own strength.

52:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll pray for you, and then you can close

52:08 Speaker 2: with a word. Right, Lord, we come to you the

52:11 Speaker 2: same thing. We thank you for this time that you

52:13 Speaker 2: give in to us, and we thank you for this conversation,

52:15 Speaker 2: and we thank you for the way you'll lead us

52:17 Speaker 2: thus far and even through the flow through everything. And

52:21 Speaker 2: we want to pray for ny in the name of

52:23 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, that you will fill love with your presence

52:25 Speaker 2: of God, filler with your anointing. Thank you for the

52:28 Speaker 2: way your letter thus far, and we thank you for

52:30 Speaker 2: the way you're going to lead her. You're going to

52:32 Speaker 2: open doors for her. You helped her come to that

52:35 Speaker 2: realization about what she's doing is actually a work that

52:40 Speaker 2: is to build your kingdom, that is ministry serving people. God,

52:44 Speaker 2: I want to pray that you will expand her territories,

52:47 Speaker 2: expand her reach. Lord. I see a vision like how

52:51 Speaker 2: you know, like waves just going through on new new

52:54 Speaker 2: grounds or something on those lines. I see like expansion

52:58 Speaker 2: coming over Lord. I want to speak expansion over her,

53:01 Speaker 2: that she's going to see the hand of God leading her,

53:05 Speaker 2: guiding her. And again I see your vision like you're

53:08 Speaker 2: trying to edit the videos or you're just trying to

53:11 Speaker 2: work things on. And then I see a vision of

53:13 Speaker 2: Jesus standing behind you and giving you creative ideas. Lord,

53:17 Speaker 2: I speak this over her, that God you're springing up creativity,

53:21 Speaker 2: flow and direction and purpose. And God, I pray that

53:25 Speaker 2: the Whope frequency is going to be a great channel

53:28 Speaker 2: of hope for multitudes for the Kingdom of God. Lord,

53:31 Speaker 2: we thank you for her, We bless her, and we

53:34 Speaker 2: pray that you'll continue to use her for the extension

53:36 Speaker 2: of your kingdom. In Jesus name, I pray, Amen a.

53:40 Speaker 3: Man, thank you so much, and I pray love me heavely. Father.

53:48 Speaker 4: I just want to thank you, Lord for every way

53:51 Speaker 4: in which you have called your beloved son John into

53:55 Speaker 4: this line of work, into this ministry.

53:59 Speaker 3: Into this calling.

54:00 Speaker 4: And I just want to speak a blessing over his podcast.

54:03 Speaker 4: I want to speak a blessing over his personal life

54:06 Speaker 4: and his ministry.

54:08 Speaker 3: Lord.

54:08 Speaker 4: I just thank you Lord that really he is your

54:11 Speaker 4: mouthpiece and he's your spokesperson. And I just pray that

54:15 Speaker 4: you will increase his appetite for the word, that he

54:18 Speaker 4: will be so hungry and thirsty for the word for

54:23 Speaker 4: revelations that you have to offer him in his own

54:28 Speaker 4: time with you, Lord Jesus, I pray for an increased

54:31 Speaker 4: appetite for you, Lord Jesus, for your presence, uh for

54:36 Speaker 4: your love God.

54:37 Speaker 3: And I just pray that.

54:41 Speaker 4: His words and the ideas and everything, Lord will just

54:45 Speaker 4: be an overflow of his time with you, Lord Jesus.

54:48 Speaker 3: I pray especially for him, Lord, that you will protect

54:52 Speaker 3: his mind, his heart and his work.

54:54 Speaker 4: Lord, pray that you will protect his family and his life,

54:57 Speaker 4: Lord Jesus, even as he steps into so many paces and.

55:02 Speaker 3: Releases your words.

55:03 Speaker 4: Lord, thank you Jesus that you have equipped him and

55:07 Speaker 4: you have blessed this space. And I just pray that

55:09 Speaker 4: you will continue to bless it Lord and will grow

55:12 Speaker 4: in a way that really blows him away, because it

55:15 Speaker 4: is you, and only you that can do what he's doing.

55:18 Speaker 3: Lord, Jesus, You're precious made me pray come in.

55:22 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you so much, guys for

55:25 Speaker 2: joining till the end. All Rainy's details are in the description.

55:29 Speaker 2: Check them out, follow her, follow her podcast, subscribe to that,

55:33 Speaker 2: and subscribe to this. Check out my book and my

55:35 Speaker 2: other books if you've not done so, and I'll see

55:39 Speaker 2: you back very soon. God bless you.

55:41 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.

55:45 Speaker 1: We hope you were blessed and inspired to live the

55:48 Speaker 1: life that God has for you. Make sure to subscribe

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56:35 Speaker 1: next episode of the Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.

56:39 Speaker 1: God bless you.