THE CHRISTIAN TRUTH ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH 🧠🛡️ | Neuroscience & Faith | Ft. Rini Jacob

0:01 Speaker 1: Do you ever look around and think, Wow, the world is a crazy place and it just seems to get crazier and crazier. Ease your mind and take a break. This is Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. We're a hub for inspirational Christian sermons, practical keys for Christian living, in Christian discussions and interviews. You'll be inspired to live the life that you were created for. Your host is a top ranking podcaster, best selling author, world record holder, aerospace engineer, life coach, evangelist and founder of John Gifta International.

0:41 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.

0:45 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, Welcome to this edition of the Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta podcast. I'm so glad that you're joined in for this special edition where I have a guest, Renny Jacob. She's a clinical psychologist as well as the host of the podcasts. I'm glad I was able to get that through, So thank you so much for joining and really, of.

1:06 Speaker 3: Course I'm so glad to be here.

1:08 Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, before we get started, I just wanted to give this shout out that I started recording the podcast at this studio the magnificant studio, and you were the one who actually introduced me to the studio, and I'm glad that you're the first guest on the part here at the studio, So pray Scout for that. So thank you so much for that heart, and thank you for being here. So, like I said, that, you're in this psychology space as well as being practicing therapy with faith based tools and all of these things.

1:40 Speaker 2: So what led you to this path?

1:44 Speaker 3: That's such an interesting question.

1:46 Speaker 4: So for about five issues, I was just doing therapy in the secular way. Whatever my textbooks taught me, whatever my course and degree taught me, is what I was doing. And at some point I felt like there was some like the clients would make progress up to a point and suddenly they would just get stuck. And I just felt the Holy Spirit saying like why don't you pray for them? Or why don't you talk about me? And it just felt like it only made sense for therapy to go forward if I invited God into the space.

2:18 Speaker 4: And so God really led me into faith based therapy. In fact, I've gone for therapy myself, and one of my early exposures to faith based therapy was through my own therapist who was a Christian and she integrated faith in therapy and so yeah, that's really where.

2:34 Speaker 3: It got started.

2:35 Speaker 2: Oo, we really need more people talking about this. I think. In fact, guys, if you're not checked this out, I got the chance to interview Recruity Angelina on the similar topic about mental health. You can check that out. That was a couple of years back. But I think that we need to keep talking about these things. And you have that unique thing bringing to the table. And also, like you said, you know you were doing therapy and all of these things, but you were like, why not integrate faith into it because that's where the meaning comes right, Like, for example, my heart is if you see one of my debut books is on finding your purpose and male a purpose.

3:12 Speaker 2: And I keep telling people that, you know, everyone has a unique calling. And when we talk about calling a purpose, we immediately think you have to become a preacher or a worship leader. Whether I believe that God has called us to be in that unique space. You know, you are into counseling, you're into therapy, and you're able to use that to help people in the time of need. Now, for example, for me, I serve as you can obvious leave Scooby Doo and people talk about Scooby Doo is a fun way, But I integrate Scooby Doo with faith to bring out messages in a unique way.

3:45 Speaker 2: No one has heard of a Scooby pastor.

3:47 Speaker 3: It's me.

3:48 Speaker 2: You know, it's a very unique thing. So I really challenge you guys that, you know, if you're thinking, like what you're doing makes no sense, ask the Lord. Like Lenny was able to integrate what she was passionate to connect with faith and help people bless the kingdom. So like the way I'm using Scooby Doo in this unique way, why not each of us, you know, start our own things that God has called us. You know, that's the place I want to get started. And I really challenge you guys to have this attitude of you know, being like a sponge to receive whatever the Lord wants to give, because sometimes we think like, oh, mental health, that's not for me, because you know, there's such a big taboo around this whole aspect of mental health, and I think we really need to talk about it.

4:32 Speaker 2: So to get started, tell us a little bit about what is this whole idea about mental health? Because sometimes people say, well, this person has mental health. Everybody has mental health. So it's more to do with you know, how you allow it to function. So give us a little bit of understanding on that.

4:49 Speaker 3: For sure.

4:51 Speaker 4: Mental well being is just one part of our houristic wellness. Right, So there's so much that we know about our physical wealth, maybe a little bit that we know about our spiritual Yeah, there's a lot that we know about our spiritual well being. There's a lot that we know about our physical well being, but there's very little that people want to acknowledge about emotional and mental well being.

5:14 Speaker 3: Right. God created our brains.

5:17 Speaker 4: God created and gave us all the different organs in our body, and we value and respect and honor and care for every other part of the body.

5:26 Speaker 3: But when it comes to do with anything to do with the mind, there is.

5:29 Speaker 4: Just so much stigma because it's looked at through the lens of spiritual failure lack of faith, and so anything to do with mental illness is immediately like, no, God is not in that picture, and that's why you're struggling.

5:44 Speaker 2: And so yeah, that's so needed. We need to talk about it, like what is what do you think is God's heart behind this? Because I feel that you know, God created us, like the scripture says, right, like love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. It's not just love the heart with your heart. You know, like there's a place for the mind, because if you're struggling physically, you would say, oh, I'm so sorry for you, let me pray for you, take care of your health. But if somebody is struggling mentally, they just say, it's in your mind, get out of it.

6:15 Speaker 2: So what do you for that?

6:18 Speaker 4: Yeah, therapy is never a replacement for God. And therapy is never a replacement for the Holy Spirit and everything that God can do in and throw us. But it really therapy reflects God's heart for wholeness, that he wants us to become whole. He wants us to experience a life of joy and freedom, right, and therapy is one of those incredible tools and one of those spaces where we can grow and become healthier in our minds. And so that really is one point, you know, it reflects God's heart for wholeness.

6:54 Speaker 3: And the second thing.

6:55 Speaker 4: Is God has very specifically instructed us. I think it's in Galatians where it says carry each other's burdens, right, and God invites us to carry each other's burdens and do this journey together. And so what is stopping us from seeking help and seeking counsel, which we have also seen with a lot of biblical characters. Moses sought counsel, David had a whole group of profits and musicians to seek counsel from. Everybody sought counsel. And yet when we do it in this mode, it is somehow looked at differently.

7:27 Speaker 4: But yeah, I think God's heart is very much for mental health.

7:32 Speaker 3: And I think God's heart.

7:33 Speaker 4: For mental health in India really so much because of the misinformation and the lack of awareness as well and the stigma attached. I think there are so many people struggling with depression, so many suicides happening among Christians right in the church, that we're just not finding the words to address and approach.

7:55 Speaker 3: And I think it's time that we started doing that.

7:57 Speaker 2: So true, so true. First of all, when he was telling about the importance of therapy, say, some people may say, like, why do I need therapy when I have God? You know what I mean? Like, I was reminded of how in Second King chapter twenty, when Hesekiah was about to be. I mean, like he was in the dead bed then he was going to die. Prophet Isaiah comes and gives him a word saying, listen, the Lord is saying you're going to live for fifteen more years, so basically saying that you're going to be healed.

8:23 Speaker 2: And then he gives an instruction to take these big leaves and put it on his boil and then he'll be healed. So the question comes that God heal him or was it the boil? I mean, was it the fig leaves? You know what I mean? So what is it? It's like God is the ultimate healer, but God uses means like it could be this fig in this case. So on a similar note, I believe like even for our mental wholeness, God is open or willing for us to use everything at our disposal.

8:51 Speaker 4: Right.

8:51 Speaker 2: It can be therapy, it can be counseling, it can be seeking some advice, it can be taking some steps. And I think people need to be in that position of being open. Like I said, we need to be like respond saying, you know what if this is something that I always have this outlook of life that I can always be wrong, that's how you are willing to be open to receive a new advice, a new suggestion. And I really pray that if you're someone who's thinking, because a lot of Christians have this idea, if you're a Christian, you can't be depressed.

9:21 Speaker 2: If you're a true believer in Christ, you're led by the spirit of God, you cannot have panic attacks. But to be honest, I've been in ministry for fourteen years and I openly share about these things that I've struggled. Like you said about suicide and depressions, like you know, I think Bangalore in India, for instance, is known as the suicide capital of the country. So with saying that, you know, those people were just stupid or foolish, Like I'm someone who has experienced that firsthand. You know what I mean.

9:51 Speaker 2: I'm a minister of God, I'm praying, I'm seeking the Lord. I love the Lord. But there are times right after having an encounter with a lot and I'm there's such a strong spirit saying jump in front of this vehicle or you know, I've experienced that. So what I'm trying to tell people is that guys, you know, mental health and mental awareness is something we need to be open about. You know, running away from it and not talking about it or ignoring it, it's not going to drive it away. It's only going to lead to more people suffering.

10:21 Speaker 2: And sometimes we think that, you know, if you're a believer, you should not and when you are doing that, what is happening is you're driving people away, those who are in actual pain. So what is your take on how we can deal to this taboo about Christian especially in the Christian world, and circle about this aspect of mental health to tell people that if somebody is going through something, it's okay. You know, you're not the hardware, not like it's not that God has forgotten you, or it's not because you're in the wrong track.

10:51 Speaker 2: Or if somebody is watching saying they are not able to understand why this other believer is saying that they're struggling from mental health, how do we tackle the taboo aspect of it.

11:02 Speaker 4: I think the approach really needs to change here because we often look at therapy as the last resort, Right, I tried everything and then I'm just gonna try this one last thing because nothing else is working. And so very often it is seen as, oh, you don't have enough faith to keep praying. Is that why you're going to therapy, right, And so often therapy is seen going to therapy is.

11:25 Speaker 3: Seen as a lack of faith.

11:27 Speaker 4: For actually, it is the one of the best opportunities to depend on God because it is you seeking counsel and it is you showing up with courage, you know, in the presence of a professional and saying hey, let's work on this together, and trusting in the therapy process because God is the one in the midst of it is spiritual reliance, right, it is.

11:53 Speaker 3: Not spiritual failure. And so I think that's.

11:56 Speaker 4: The shift that needs to happen because in faith based therapy, God is the center. Everything flows from the truth that Jesus is our healer and the Holy Spirit is on the move, and it is just even the therapist is a tool.

12:10 Speaker 3: Yes, it is not that the therapist.

12:12 Speaker 4: There is if at any point I go into a session relying on my own abilities, God, you know, so that really, yeah, that's so true.

12:21 Speaker 2: I remember there was something that I was dealing with for over eight years and I was praying about it and I was like, no, I need to like I fasted or whatever you talk about like decree declare everything okay for eight years, but it was constantly affecting me still about maybe two weeks ago when I was just praying in the spirit and I said, Holy Spirit, how do I deal with this? And then he gave me. Like you said about therapy is you know, taking counsel, that's one side of it, but there's also the other side where you follow tools, right like for example.

12:55 Speaker 2: So what happened was this was a unique tool that God gave me, Like why didn't you whatever these thoughts that are affecting you, why don't you convert that in the form of a story and release it out, you know, like express yourself. I started working on it, like I think for two days. It was so messy. My mine was like completely in a very bad shape because I was dealing with these things. I think that's just when I actually missed out reaching back to you, because I was actually in my own sense of doing therapy for myself.

13:24 Speaker 2: But you won't believe after those two days of working on it and just it was a unique idea that the Lord led me through after that, like I'm completely free in that area, you know what I mean? Like what eight years of fasting and praying did not help. When I followed what the Holy Spirit led me to do as a tool, in just two days, I was able to see a difference, you know what I mean. So guys, that's what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that we are replacing God, you know, and we are trying to say that I put my focus on the tool.

13:56 Speaker 2: But what we are saying is we allow God to leave just through the tools that He wants us to use.

14:02 Speaker 3: Yeah.

14:02 Speaker 2: You know, like even when you say preaching the gospel, right, you're using this tool of the places that people are having hurt to use that to be the light in the darkness, right, Like we need to allow that, and we needed to have that sense of maturity to understand how God leads. Yes, And when you think about this, sometimes people think click, oh my gosh, you know, like there's something wrong with me when I'm facing this, But I do see the scripture. There were those in the scripture who dealt with this.

14:32 Speaker 2: The classic example is Eleija, right, yes, Elecha in First King stept in nineteen he had a tremendous sense of depression. There was a time when the apostle Paul said in First Corinthians or Second Corinthians. He said things were so bad I wanted to die. It was like suicidal depression. Or we talk about even Jonah, he was like so depressed and he was like I don't want to live anymore. And we also talk about Joe b. Think of it as like, look, job was so good he said, blessed be the name of the Lord.

15:04 Speaker 2: But that doesn't have to do Yeah, but the same job went to a point of pain where he said, curse by the day I was born. Yes, like he went through that. So the characters in the Word of God also went through what we went through or we are going through. It's just that they sought the Law's leading and help and healing through that process, and we need to do the same. So what's your take on that.

15:27 Speaker 4: I think it's so interesting to see God's heart for those who are struggling mentally right when they were emotionally in the depths of the depths. God did not judge them, God did not shun them. They were not disqualified from their colleague. Yes, God loved them. God cared for them. God told them to rest right. God met them in their humanness right. And so this idea of if you're struggling with depressive thoughts, or if you're feeling if you're feeling very anxious, it's because there is something wrong in your spiritual life, or that you're not spiritually strong, or you're not strong as a human being.

16:14 Speaker 4: They're all so incorrect, right, because to recognize or to assume that God does not love me, or there is something wrong in my relationship with him and that's why I'm struggling is really such a misconception around mental illness. Right. What really blows me away is God's heart for each of those characters.

16:35 Speaker 2: Right.

16:35 Speaker 4: God literally told Elijah he put him to sleep, and then he gave him food, and he gave him water, and he said, just rest. Even with Joe Job's friends came to him and said, I mean, I think they were talking amongst themselves or I'm not too sure. They said, yeah, I'm sure he's going through all of this because of sin. Right. And even if you see in the Book of John, the disciples that meet the blind man, they say, oh, yeah, who's sin cause him to be blind? And it was Jesus saying, no, it is. Of course, it can be sin sometimes the consequence of sin, but it's not always right, and to just know that God's heart is to heal and God's heart is to revive and restore, but we need to be willing to invite him into that space.

17:19 Speaker 4: And I think you beautifully said spiritual maturity.

17:22 Speaker 2: Right.

17:22 Speaker 3: We all want to grow in our faith.

17:24 Speaker 4: What if it means that in like, I can grow in my faith, and I can grow as a person, and I can become more like Jesus by learning to ask for help, by learning to access the tools that I need that only a professional can. I think you were blessed to be able to find the tools yourself in what you just shared and said, yeah, I found it. I was able to use it, and I was blessed. And in a couple of days I experienced that. But a lot of us, including myself, I could not find that in my dark days.

17:52 Speaker 3: I struggled with depression as well, and so I went for therapy.

17:56 Speaker 4: I went to a secular therapist, I went to a faith based therapist, and they were both blessed me because it was using the right tools.

18:04 Speaker 2: Right, That's so true, because see that's what we see all through the scripture, right, Like it's about the tools that you need. Like, for example, if I'm hungry, just coming and telling me that, Hey, you know what, you just have to have faith. You should sit and pray, fast and pray. I'm already fast thing, dude, you know what I mean? Like I'm what I need is physical food, you know what I mean? Like, like you said about Elijah, I always go back to this. If somebody looked at Elijah at that point, they would have called him the laziest goes on earth.

18:32 Speaker 2: This guy's eating and sleeping, eating and sleeping, but they don't know what is happening. You know, sometimes we judge ourselves or we judge somebody else looking at the season when and like, how can you just eat and sleep? How can you be lazy? How can you not be more intentional about taking a step? But understand the pain that you're in is something that's real, you know what I mean? Like, what is your take on helping people understand you talk about the neurological part or it's that neuroscience part of it.

19:02 Speaker 2: I can you help us understand that part because a lot of people think it's just in your mind, you know, just get out of it, get out of your bed, Like I mean, if I could, I would, you know, what I mean. So, can you talk a little bit about that.

19:14 Speaker 3: Absolutely.

19:16 Speaker 4: So, the brain is one of the most incredible machines that we have ever come across, right, And God is such a creative.

19:25 Speaker 3: Intelligent, incredible God in the way that he built our brain.

19:30 Speaker 4: It's made up of billions of cells, billions of neurons, and these neurons are constantly talking to each other through these chemicals called neurotransmitters.

19:39 Speaker 3: Okay, so you.

19:40 Speaker 4: Have all these different parts of the brain being able to communicate effectively with each other. But when you are going through depression, those communication systems stop working. They're not really communicating to each other properly. And so some of those neurotransmitters can be serotonin.

19:58 Speaker 3: I think a lot of us have heard about serotonin.

20:00 Speaker 4: It's the one that boosts your mood, it helps you sleep better, it helps you feel good that instantly drops. And then there's dopamine. A lot of us know about dopamine as well. We're all looking for dopamine hits, right, That's why we're doom scrolling because it gives us that dopamine hit. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter that helps with motivation and drive and it's the thing that keeps us interested in doing certain hobbies or tasks. And the third one is not epinephrin, which again is responsible for giving us energy and motivation and helping us do things.

20:33 Speaker 4: You know, really well, just imagine that all these levels in your brain are imbalanced, telling someone just get out of it on your own, or just you know, put all your strength, and you know what is that if you just will yourself to get better, you will get better.

20:54 Speaker 3: And this is all in your head is.

20:57 Speaker 4: Inaccurate because depression shows up on brain scans.

21:01 Speaker 3: The brain of somebody who's.

21:03 Speaker 4: Going through depression looks very different from.

21:07 Speaker 3: The brain of someone who.

21:08 Speaker 4: Is not, because those chemical levels itself are imbalanced.

21:12 Speaker 3: Right.

21:12 Speaker 4: The other thing is we have a particular part of the brain called the amygdala, which is responsible for emotional regulation, so that one kind of goes into hyper alert mode, so it starts becoming hyper sensitive to all of the things that would typically not trigger us. So, for example, because the amygdala is not working properly, we tend to get fixated more on the problems or things that are not going well, which is why when someone is depressed, they're constantly thinking negatively. It's because the amygdala is not able to communicate well with the other parts of the brain and it is not really working to its full capacity.

21:51 Speaker 4: And then there is something known as the prefantle contex, which is the thinking part of our brain, supposed to make decisions, supposed to motivate us to do our tasks, which is why a lot of like one of the things that when I struggled with depression was indecisiveness.

22:04 Speaker 3: I just couldn't make the most.

22:06 Speaker 4: Simplest of decisions, and the smallest of tasks like getting out of bed or I don't know, taking a shower was so difficult. Right, it's because all of these different parts of the brain are imbalanced and the chemicals that are supposed to be messengers are not working properly right, and so quite literally, on a on a like neurological level, there are evidences of something not working and the only way to change that is by actively strengthening certain parts of the brain through tools therapeutic you know, exercises, or through medication, right, because you are you have to restore that chemical balance in the brain.

22:49 Speaker 4: So that really is what happens with depression or anxiety or any of the mental illnesses.

22:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, so for some of you, maybe something brand new because you're just saying like, oh, all I thought it was is in the mind, But then you're actually talking about what is happening behind it, the signs behind it, and you may say, well, it's not in the scripture. Well, a lot of things were written based on the understanding that people had back in the day. Now what I mean, Like, for example, when this scripture says God made to big lights sun and the moon, you know, it doesn't talk about Jupiter or Mars.

23:27 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that Jupiter or Mars were not created by God. It's because based on the understanding that people had back then, the scripture was written in that sense, you know, so that people can follow. Like I think there's a fun fact that I came across ones that the Bible says in the Book of Revelations. I think in the last days the sun will be more bright or something on those lines, so which could actually be a reflection of global warming for example, So people never knew about global warming back then, but then the scripture is talking about something in line with that, you know, based on what people could understand back then.

24:04 Speaker 2: So on a similar note, right, now people look at something and say, hey, this is not in the scripture, but this is something written in the world, like for example, things like in Philippians. It's says, so I think of these things that are good, but now we are true saying about how some people cannot even think because they're going through those things. So I really pray that you know, people get to understand that, you know, this is something really serious and we need to take the right steps. So can you talk a little bit about the tools of therapy or the faith based therapy.

24:40 Speaker 4: Of course, so there are lots of different approaches and there are lots of different therapy techniques, but one of my favorite therapy techniques is something known as cognitive behavior therapy, also in as CBT. So CBT basically identifies the unhelpful thoughts because actually everything begins at the thought level. All of us notice our feelings, right, I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm upset, I'm scared, But the feeling actually follows the thought. Yes, there was always a thought that you know is the root, and then there's the feeling, and based on that feeling, we tend to respond or react to the situation.

25:20 Speaker 3: So how faith based therapy integrates.

25:24 Speaker 4: I mean, how faith based therapy uses something like CBT would be to be able to identify those unhelpful thoughts, that's what I do with my clients, and then to be able to counter it with scripture. Right, because just to add here, you mentioned certain things are not really mentioned in the Bible, right, I mean to just add to that and to say that science is only.

25:45 Speaker 3: Now catching up to scripture. Right.

25:48 Speaker 4: Thank God for science, and thank God for these studies and research which is helping us to understand how incredible God is in the way that he's built at and only now are we learning how some of those things actually work. Right, when when we see in the Book of Romans do not be conformed to the patterns of this world, but be renewed by the transfer, you know, but be transformed by the.

26:13 Speaker 3: Renewing of your mind.

26:14 Speaker 4: God knew that it was neuroplasticity, but now science has finally told, oh, by the way, here's this thing called neuroplasticity, and this is how it works. Right, And so really science is only now catching up, yeah, with scripture. And so that really is the approach I have to everything that there is the tool. But then the foundation of.

26:36 Speaker 3: It is scripture, It's the word of God.

26:39 Speaker 4: So sometimes I take references from different stories of the Bible or different incidents in the Bible to sort.

26:44 Speaker 3: Of speak to speak into a particular situation.

26:49 Speaker 4: And really it that that balance is so important, right, because sometimes I will have Christian clients coming in and sort of saying, yeah, I'm feeling like really low, and I think it's it's the attack of the enemy, and I'm sure the enemy is at work, and I just need to do this and that, and I need to go and fast for five days and six days and all of that is great, But I think as Christians we tend to over spiritualize a little bit. So there is a balance between knowing what is, you know, the attack of the enemy, and of course engaging in the spiritual weapons that God has given us and knowing how to address this from a very practical cognitive standpoint, and that discernment we cannot do on our own.

27:33 Speaker 4: It helps when there is a neutral person in that space, like a therapist, like a professional, because they are unbiased. They don't know you, they don't know anything else, so they're able to see your situation from a very neutral perspective and give you input that is very helpful.

27:51 Speaker 3: Right, That really is what mentoring is. Right.

27:53 Speaker 4: Why do we go to our mentors in our church spaces is because they give us that wisdom and that different perspective.

28:00 Speaker 3: So, yeah, that really is.

28:01 Speaker 4: A little bit about how therapy works on a practical level.

28:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so needed, and especially like the way you shared about knowing the difference between understanding what's the spiritual warfare and what actually requires of you to take a step, Yes, because if you're not doing that, like, for example, if I'm thinking, oh, I have headache and I just take a painkiller like paracetamol, what if some I mean, I want to say it in a negative way, but what if it was actually a tumor for example? Right, So if you're thinking like oh, I just want to pray this away or I just think that it should go away.

28:34 Speaker 2: But certain things you need to be intentional about taking those steps, right like you. I like the way you mentioned that sometimes you take decisions based on what you know, but when somebody else comes into the scene, they give you clarity of things that you may not have thought about. Like I think there was a moment where a Hosis was trying to deal with the people, and his father in law had to come and give him a different idea or perspective that he didn't think about before. So sometimes it's all about, you know, being in that place.

29:04 Speaker 2: Like again, it goes back to the place of humility, saying God, you know what I am willing to be like an open book. I always have that approach of life. So at the same time, you allow God to guide you and tell you if something is not of him as well. When you talk about various things that people deal with, right, like we let's focus on a holistic approach because I want people to go to your podcast and check the specifics that they may be dealing with. Guys, I want you to do it after this episode, not now.

29:31 Speaker 2: Okay, So the thing is, like, on a holistic approach, what are some practical tools that people can use to have a better mental health?

29:41 Speaker 4: Given that we're talking about it from a very general point of view, I think the simplest thing that we can do is to just be aware. Sometimes a lot of us don't heal or overcome certain things because we're not ready to deal with it. And how can you deal with something that you're not aware of, right, And so the first thing is to be able to bring it to awareness, to check in with yourself and say and ask what.

30:06 Speaker 3: Am I feeling? What am I thinking right now? And to be able to name that. You know, am I feeling anxious?

30:12 Speaker 4: Or am I feeling confused or stressed or overwhelmed or helpless or angry or hostile or jealous? The minute you label it. The minute you label it, you're externalizing it. It's not something that's you know, it's not something that's intrinsic to you, but it is something that's external.

30:32 Speaker 3: And so you're dealing.

30:33 Speaker 4: With the problem once you're aware, to be able to ask what is in your control and what is out of your control in that situation, and then to be able to move into what is the tool that I need to use in that particular setting. Right, Because we're speaking from a very general point of view, I think the easiest skill that we can all access is emotional regulation. A lot of us suggests like, oh, I wish I reacted better in that situation, or sometimes I feel like my emotions get the best of me, or I'm not able to understand what I'm feeling.

31:06 Speaker 4: So emotional regulation works on the fact that you take the time to label and understand what you're feeling and then to be able to respond to it. Sorry, it works on labeling and understanding what you're feeling and then being curious about where that feeling is coming from, right, what is the thought underlying that feeling, and to be able to counter that thought, because really, for every thought and every struggle.

31:32 Speaker 3: That we have, there is a verse to counter it.

31:35 Speaker 4: And so I think the most simplest thing would be take a journal, write down these thoughts that are causing these feelings and find a verse to counter it, challenge it, or cancel it.

31:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so good. That's so good because actually, when you were sharing this, I was reminded, like I mentioned about Larry Krab's the counseling thing, right, like, because I've done like a course on cowsling many years ago. So that's how I was able to concert myself. You're asking how I found that thing, because for me, that's how over time what happened to me was like I was, the steps followed are very similar. Like even if it's not a mental health issue, even if it's a behavioral issue or something, what we do is like seven stages.

32:22 Speaker 2: Like first this, like you said, it starts with a thought, right, like we looking at the behavior and we are wondering why this behavior, and then we study the words that come out of your mouth. Then you see it's because of the thoughts, and the thoughts come down to checking what is the root foundation thing, you know what I mean? Like for example, let me give it myself as an example. Right, ever since I was young, I was always put down for especially the color of my skin, which gave me a big insecurity issue.

32:51 Speaker 2: So on the outside, you know, even Manuel knows this. But you'll ask me to smile, I'll never smile in my teets, okay, And I'm like, I'm not able to do it like behavior, and then I tell them like no, I don't look good. I don't want to do this, And then comes to the thought level, it's like, oh, I'm not looking fine, and then the root issue is nothing to do with smiling. It had something to do with the deep issue of you know, insecurity that was because of what happened. Then I have to deal with the like changing Like you're talking about changing the mind, right, you change?

33:26 Speaker 2: What is the scripture talking about it? Like your fearfully and wonderfully made. You're made in the image of God. You're a masterpiece of God God's workmanship. So you change your innermost tape recorder, so to speak, you know, in your mind, and then what happens You start thinking according to that because the Bible says has some man think it's so a see, So your mind starts thinking in that way, your words starts changing accordingly, and then your behavior will change. You know what I mean. It's like, so that's a very similar thing that I keep doing and I keep telling people as well.

33:57 Speaker 2: So what you shared is the same thing, but we follow this pattern so that we can change our mind. And the other thing you spoke about writing as well, right, Like, there's so much that you can have in your mind, but when you put it out there, when you write, it can be in the form of writing. Writing is one great thing. Or if you don't like writing, you can speak it out, like you have so many places where you can have like a on online audio journal or something like that. You can speak it out or write or express.

34:27 Speaker 2: One of the things that helped me, especially dealing with insecurity, is you know, I love taking photos of myself photos of video shoots. So what happened is sometimes for me, one of my quote unquote therapy tools would be to take photo shoots a video shoots. So when I take these high quality photos and video, sometimes I fall in love with myself, you know what I mean. It's like, oh my gosh, like I look like this model or I look good. You know, when that actually helped me in how I deal with myself, like in this sense, like how I see myself, you know, when I'm so on a similar note, like finding your own unique tools that like for example, maybe your therapist guys, I challenge you to check it up, can give you what works for you and that unique thing that you can have and also follow certain things which are very practical, like you know, going back to this of how God gave Elijah not an instruction of fast and pray for five days, but rather just eat and drink and sleep, you know, sometimes take care of your physical health.

35:29 Speaker 2: You know, sometimes I remember and I'm just too tired. I just I go for swimming every day. So the minute I go and swim, I don't know, Like even this morning, I was so clouded with so many things when swam for one hour I'm supposed to be more tired, but then coming back, I'm so much better, brighter. So what I'm saying is taking care of your physical body, taking care of your health, all of those things actually help you have a holistic mental health as well. So just handing on to order, you said, yeah, but I really hope guys, these things help you in your you know, overall mental health.

36:08 Speaker 2: I mean, so that you are able to do that better.

36:11 Speaker 4: But just to add one more thing, sure, just to add one more thing. Self compassion is so underrated, right, And I think when you are sharing about how you look at pictures of yourself and you use like you were actually changing the narrative in your head. Right, you were finding new words to talk about the way you look or you appear in so the color of your skin, and you spoke with the language of love.

36:38 Speaker 3: Right.

36:39 Speaker 4: Sometimes we don't speak to ourselves kindly because we're so terrified of becoming proud. To the point, I don't think pride is the issue. I think self condemnation is the issue.

36:51 Speaker 3: Right.

36:51 Speaker 4: That inner critic is left unchecked in most of us, and I think especially among Christians, the inner critic is extra loud because we say but we need that regulative voice to make sure we're on the right path and the right track, and we're growing correctly, and we're doing all the things that are you know, right in the eyes of God. But if you are experiencing condemnation, it's not of God. And so self compassion, what does that mean. It is to speak kindly to yourself. It is to find one thing to appreciate about yourself at the end of the day.

37:26 Speaker 4: Something I tell on a very practical level to my clients is take us post it or a sticky note, write something nice about yourself. Put it on your mirror, so that when you're brushing your teeth it's something that you just look at. You know, we consume so much content. What if we consume these words of love that we have to speak to ourselves. And God invites us to love ourselves, isn't it. It is not pride, it is not arrogance.

37:52 Speaker 2: But it's easier to be kind to a million people than to ourselves.

37:57 Speaker 3: Always.

37:58 Speaker 4: Always, yeah, that is not that's really not how God wants us to treat ourselves.

38:05 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's one of the things. What I did was I put frames of myself with the high quality photos. I frame them with some of them with the Bible verse or something. So what happens? I keep them in the room, so I keep looking at I'm like, Okay, this is what the scripture says, this is who I am, or you know, things like that. So this is something that worked for me. I'm not saying it. Everything will work the same way for each person. And that's why taking the right steps or maybe the help of a counselor or a therapist will help in that regard.

38:37 Speaker 2: So what is your word for the Body of Christ or how churches can you know, deal with this whole issue in the right way.

38:46 Speaker 4: Yeah, I really like my heart's desire is that the church and mental health professionals work collaboratively, right, I think there.

38:58 Speaker 3: Is early such a I don't know.

39:02 Speaker 4: There sometimes seems to be points of friction between the church and mental health professionals because mental health professionals are trying to pull people away from over spiritualizing, and pastors and church leaders are worried that if they send their flock to, you know, a therapist, it probably is showing that they are not qualified enough to deal with their you know, deal with their people and deal with their congregation, and so it really I think there's such a problematic relationship between these two areas when actually, if we can work together, you know what wonders, right, we can really do so much for God's kingdom, and that is God's heart is for us to be able to work together as one body, right.

39:48 Speaker 3: And so.

39:50 Speaker 4: One thing I would really say is for the church, and I think I see that happening a lot in India yea, where church spaces are posting workshops or mental health issues or bringing awareness on topics that are not discussed like suicide or anxiety or burnout or whatever that might be the things that we just tend to listen to sermons on. You know, they are inviting professionals and saying, hey, let's.

40:17 Speaker 3: Talk about this together.

40:19 Speaker 4: And so the church is opening up spaces for mental health to be discussed and so it's no longer one of those things that you have to deal with on your own, but it's out in the open.

40:29 Speaker 3: That would be Number one.

40:30 Speaker 4: Second is it's incredible to see a lot of pastors and church leaders refer their members of the church, refer members of the church to therapists and say, hey, this is.

40:42 Speaker 3: Where we are going to back you up in.

40:45 Speaker 4: Your journey of healing, but I think you should seek professional help, right, And I think it's supposed to be a harmonious relationship.

40:55 Speaker 2: But I really like that when you said that there are churches that are opening up, and I really want that to be the case, like in the sense, not just about this aspect, but you know, I think we were talking about this before. I says and as well, that we need that unity in the Body of Christ. You know, the Scripture talks about, of course the five fold ministry you see, you know, the apostles, profits, evangelists, teachers, and masters, but there are other gifts as well, surveying, counseling, And I think the most effective way to build a Body of Christ together, build the Kingdom of God together, is to understand, like you know what, I'm not building my church, I'm building the Kingdom of God.

41:36 Speaker 2: So if I'm a pastor, I know what I can do, Like a pastor has his limitations and a therapist knows their part to play. So that's how we can actually build a kingdom together. You know, That's been my heart as well, Like you know, even as a podcast, like we're doing this collaboration. My heart is somebody who's watching this, you know, maybe they came to know about you through my podcast. So they should be in a place where they're like, oh, I am having these challenges and they should come to your podcast and somebody who's checking this out through you, you know, when you share this around, they should be like, Okay, there's some insights that I'll be blessed with and they need to check mine.

42:15 Speaker 2: So it should be a place where there's no competition or insecurity, like oh, it's my crowd, your crowd. No. I really pray that the Body of Christ comes to that unity where they understand, like like you said, you know, we like there are those who are happy that they're taking therapy and things like that. So let's pray that this culture builds up, especially in the nation of India, that people are okay to understand, Okay, this is my role to play, this is the therapist, therapist's role to play, and then there will be that unity that actually brings in the deliverance that is required.

42:50 Speaker 2: Because I'll be honest with you, right. For example, what I've seen is sometimes I have seen quote unquote pastors take sessions on how to deal with burnouts, how to deal with stress example, And I still remember this person. I'm not putting anybody down, but I remember the session on something on those lines, and he was giving very basic idea like you know, you should trust God more. And I was thinking, I mean, I'm not saying anything against trusting God, but what I'm saying is, this person has no idea what is the actual level of stress or what is happening in the corporate sector for the people he was addressed.

43:26 Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like, for example, when I talk on the same topic, I know what it means because I'm working. I'm an aerospace engineer, right, so I know what happens in the corporate sector. I know what it means to like for example, when there's a layoff. The simple example that you get from pastors. I'm not putting everyone out. I'm just saying from a lot of ministry leaders is oh, just trust God, pray. God will leave you a job. But then what emotional journey you go through? You know, it affects your you question yourself, your word, it affects you.

43:59 Speaker 2: They just say like, oh, you're not praying enough. That's so you can't get a job. You know, so all of these things, well, how the priactical journey looks like. So when I deal with the same topic recently, I released the video on you know, layoffs, how to deal with layoffs. But from my perspective of not a journey with God, you know, it makes a difference. So what I'm trying to tell people is like, we're not putting somebody down. You're not saying a pastor or a leader, We're not putting somebody down.

44:27 Speaker 2: But what you're saying is everyone should know their role and their capability and understand where they're coming from. And then within that space, when you operate and you allow somebody else to operate in the space that they're designed to, that's when the body of Christ can be edified. So I really want that to be the case. So a little bit of fun at this point of time. Now, if you could counsel somebody in the Bible, who would that be?

44:56 Speaker 3: I think I can really to Moses a lot.

45:01 Speaker 4: So maybe Moses he struggled with so much self doubt, right, and he was so quick to discount himself when God called him.

45:10 Speaker 3: Saying, no, God, but I have a stutter, No, but I have this no but I'm not capable.

45:15 Speaker 4: But knowing his entire life, I think when we know the whole story and the whole timeline, we can say, yeah, of course Moses was an incredible leader, but he went through some very real struggles, right. There was a lot of self doubt, and I think, like a lot of leaders in the church, he had quite a lonely journey in that he was a leader. Of course, he had Aaron and Miriam, but at the end of the day, there were many things that many decisions he had to take alone, right, And so I think I would be very happy to be his therapist and to encourage him and to invite him to restructure some of those unhelpful thoughts of self doubt and anxiety, or even those moments when he got angry and upset.

45:57 Speaker 3: Teach him to regulate that anger a little bit.

46:01 Speaker 2: That's nice, That's nice.

46:04 Speaker 4: I would actually take David as the most excellent example of someone who just journaled very vulnerably and was very real. He did not filter. You know, my God, why have you forsaken me? I'm in anguished. My pillow is wet with tears. I am not able to eat, I'm not able to sleep.

46:25 Speaker 3: He did not.

46:25 Speaker 4: Hold back, right, and those were his prayers and God loved those prayers because God wants all of us, and he wants us to be vulnerable and come as we are.

46:34 Speaker 3: And we see.

46:35 Speaker 4: David an incredible, you know, king and a man with so much power, being so real and so broken and so weak in the presence of God because he knew that God will meet him where he's at. And so I would probably love to have sat with him while he journaled, trying to understand what his thought process were.

46:58 Speaker 2: That's good, that's good. I really love that. Yeah, we need to be like open without any filters before God, and that makes a huge difference. Our next question is if Joe walked into the room as a counselor of what would be your first question of what would you just say to him?

47:15 Speaker 4: I would give Joe a hug, you know, because he, I mean, what resilience, what resilience that stems from having such faith in God. And I think he's an excellent example of you know, not looking inward, but he was so fixed on God and just relied on God throughout. So I would really, you know, remind him that that is his strength because he's feeling like everything, he's lost everything, and he's also maybe blaming himself.

47:49 Speaker 3: So I would probably say.

47:51 Speaker 4: No, do the things that you did before, which was call on God and trust in him and fix on who God.

47:56 Speaker 3: Fix your eyes on who God is, and not fix your eyes on who you are.

48:01 Speaker 4: Right, he did not focus or allow his circumstances to determine his worship or.

48:08 Speaker 3: The way he saw God.

48:10 Speaker 4: But he really he allowed the way he saw God to determine how he approached to circumstances.

48:16 Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's so beautiful.

48:19 Speaker 2: Allot of the way he started with, like I want to give him a hug. Yeah, sometimes guys just giving a hug and a smile can go a long way. So that is so needed. A last fun question because we have Scooby Doo here, So if you were to give any advice to the Scooby Doo gang, you're seeing them running around at the same time they team up, but on a counseling perspective, what would you give them, like when they're scared, when they're facing struggles like Scooby is like, So when Scooby that's that, what are you going to do?

48:53 Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm going to get super technical here.

48:57 Speaker 4: I think Shaggy right, yes, Scooby, Yeah, I think Shaggy.

49:01 Speaker 3: And Scooby have a very co dependent relationship.

49:04 Speaker 4: I think it can be a little unhealthy sometimes, So maybe they need to have a healthy balance in their friendship and maybe raw some boundaries and not depend on each other so much for validation and for their plans. Like I think Shaggy would always follow Scooby do.

49:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

49:25 Speaker 4: Sorry, I think Shaggy would always follow Scooby around, And so I would say Shaggy have a mind of your own. And but yeah, that's just a very playful take on yeah.

49:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's but all of these even though they're fun takes, there are practical things Shanning right, like learning to set boundaries, and like I was talking to you earlier that I call my Doggie as my sister. So for me, I'm so excited I have a little sister. But like, in a similar note, like we know where to set boundaries and so many things that we can learn and learn and take away. This is something I've never seen anyone talk about it, you know, Shaggy and Scooby, you guys, but it's pretty cool, pretty cool.

50:09 Speaker 2: So where can people find your podcast.

50:12 Speaker 3: On YouTube and on Spotify.

50:14 Speaker 2: And how can people stay in touch with you?

50:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, they can drop me an email.

50:18 Speaker 4: Maybe we can tag the email lightly at the bottom or even yeah, definitely connect with me on Instagram.

50:24 Speaker 2: Sounds good. So we'll come up to almost the end of the session. But what I usually do at the end is I always pray for the guest and I also recommend those who are watching to also pray for you, And then I would ask you to pray for me, the podcast and the guests before there are any words you want to share about me and the podcast, your experience and whatever you know before as well.

50:50 Speaker 4: I think, I mean, it was so amazing that we got that, like while the setup was happening, that we got that time to just have that conversation, and it's it's so amazing to see how you've been in this industry for fourteen years, you've been in this space, and just your heart to be so faithful, John, I think that's to me that was so inspiring.

51:10 Speaker 3: And I think it to.

51:12 Speaker 4: Also recognize that you could not have done this on your own strength, and so just allowing God to use you and to reveal his heart through you is so inspiring, and it shows the kind of relationship you have with God and just how closely you walk with Him in that you're able to do this without hitting burnout. Right, That can only be God.

51:35 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank.

51:36 Speaker 2: You so much. So what can we pray for you?

51:43 Speaker 4: I think it's very recently that I've recognized that the work I do is also ministry. So to start viewing the work that I do as ministry, that I will be able to bless many through faith based therapy, and that I will learn what it means to rely on God and not on my own abilities and.

52:04 Speaker 3: My own strength.

52:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll pray for you, and then you can close with a word. Right, Lord, we come to you the same thing. We thank you for this time that you give in to us, and we thank you for this conversation, and we thank you for the way you'll lead us thus far and even through the flow through everything. And we want to pray for ny in the name of Jesus Christ, that you will fill love with your presence of God, filler with your anointing. Thank you for the way your letter thus far, and we thank you for the way you're going to lead her.

52:31 Speaker 2: You're going to open doors for her. You helped her come to that realization about what she's doing is actually a work that is to build your kingdom, that is ministry serving people. God, I want to pray that you will expand her territories, expand her reach. Lord. I see a vision like how you know, like waves just going through on new new grounds or something on those lines. I see like expansion coming over Lord. I want to speak expansion over her, that she's going to see the hand of God leading her, guiding her.

53:05 Speaker 2: And again I see your vision like you're trying to edit the videos or you're just trying to work things on. And then I see a vision of Jesus standing behind you and giving you creative ideas. Lord, I speak this over her, that God you're springing up creativity, flow and direction and purpose. And God, I pray that the Whope frequency is going to be a great channel of hope for multitudes for the Kingdom of God. Lord, we thank you for her, We bless her, and we pray that you'll continue to use her for the extension of your kingdom.

53:38 Speaker 2: In Jesus name, I pray, Amen a.

53:40 Speaker 3: Man, thank you so much, and I pray love me heavely. Father.

53:48 Speaker 4: I just want to thank you, Lord for every way in which you have called your beloved son John into this line of work, into this ministry.

53:59 Speaker 3: Into this calling.

54:00 Speaker 4: And I just want to speak a blessing over his podcast. I want to speak a blessing over his personal life and his ministry.

54:08 Speaker 3: Lord.

54:08 Speaker 4: I just thank you Lord that really he is your mouthpiece and he's your spokesperson. And I just pray that you will increase his appetite for the word, that he will be so hungry and thirsty for the word for revelations that you have to offer him in his own time with you, Lord Jesus, I pray for an increased appetite for you, Lord Jesus, for your presence, uh for your love God.

54:37 Speaker 3: And I just pray that.

54:41 Speaker 4: His words and the ideas and everything, Lord will just be an overflow of his time with you, Lord Jesus.

54:48 Speaker 3: I pray especially for him, Lord, that you will protect his mind, his heart and his work.

54:54 Speaker 4: Lord, pray that you will protect his family and his life, Lord Jesus, even as he steps into so many paces and.

55:02 Speaker 3: Releases your words.

55:03 Speaker 4: Lord, thank you Jesus that you have equipped him and you have blessed this space. And I just pray that you will continue to bless it Lord and will grow in a way that really blows him away, because it is you, and only you that can do what he's doing.

55:18 Speaker 3: Lord, Jesus, You're precious made me pray come in.

55:22 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you so much, guys for joining till the end. All Rainy's details are in the description. Check them out, follow her, follow her podcast, subscribe to that, and subscribe to this. Check out my book and my other books if you've not done so, and I'll see you back very soon. God bless you.

55:41 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. We hope you were blessed and inspired to live the life that God has for you. Make sure to subscribe to the John gifted YouTube channel for regular uploads of sermons, skits, interviews, and more. Follow John Gifta on Instagram for regular inspirational posts, and don't forget to check out the best selling books written by John Gifta, Who Am I which will help you understand your identity and the latest number one best seller Unveil your Purpose, helping you discover your purpose and to start walking in it.

56:15 Speaker 1: Make sure to leave a rating and review and be sure to share it with your friends and loved ones. If you'd like to donate, you can find the PayPal link in the description, and if you'd like to invite John Gifta to speak at your event or to get more details, go to the website at www. Godjoongifted dot com. See you on the next episode of the Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. God bless you.