Church Hurt & Disappointments | John Giftah | Vivian Williams (Iconic Worship) Interview (Part 4)

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0:41 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.

0:49 Speaker 2: Since you're talking about people and this mindset, I mean

0:53 Speaker 2: even I've faced a lot of geologically, people have attacked because,

0:57 Speaker 2: like I said, there are a sessionists who don't believe

0:59 Speaker 2: in gifts. The spirit God uses me in all of

1:01 Speaker 2: those things. I've been attacked. There are people who attack.

1:04 Speaker 2: No matter what you do, people are going to criticize you,

1:07 Speaker 2: and at the same time you face a lot of

1:10 Speaker 2: discouragement like being a budding minister of God. Right, this

1:17 Speaker 2: is my thirteenth year of ministry that has started from

1:19 Speaker 2: college days, and the truth of the matter is you

1:22 Speaker 2: would really expect somebody to encourage you and support you,

1:26 Speaker 2: but for the most part, it doesn't happen that way.

1:29 Speaker 3: It's more of discouragement.

1:30 Speaker 2: I still remember there was a time I paid a

1:32 Speaker 2: huge price to go because back in the day, like

1:35 Speaker 2: even from family, it was a huge struggle for me,

1:38 Speaker 2: like a big sacrifice on my part to do the ministry.

1:42 Speaker 2: I respective of all of that. So I go all

1:45 Speaker 2: the way to this particular place to preach. I had

1:48 Speaker 2: spoken to this past of the day before and all

1:50 Speaker 2: of that, and he had canceled the meeting, and he

1:53 Speaker 2: didn't even have the courtesy to let me know I'm going,

1:56 Speaker 2: and trying to call him, he's not picking up a

1:58 Speaker 2: call and a mutual friend where should I parked the vehicle,

2:00 Speaker 2: and they said, sorry, the meeting is canceled. Like I

2:03 Speaker 2: was heartbroken, because you just you know, you're in the

2:06 Speaker 2: place where sometimes one of the most irritating things I've

2:10 Speaker 2: seen I'm not taking a job on a particular person. Now,

2:14 Speaker 2: I'm not criticising anybody in particlub, but I've seen people say,

2:18 Speaker 2: you know, we are here for the next generation. We

2:20 Speaker 2: want to raise the next generation of leaders, and we

2:22 Speaker 2: want to support the next generation. But when you actually

2:25 Speaker 2: meet them and say, you know, I'm from the next

2:27 Speaker 2: generation and I'm doing this, let's collaborate, let's do something,

2:31 Speaker 2: they're so cold faced.

2:33 Speaker 3: I'm like, there's a night and day difference between what.

2:35 Speaker 2: You share on stage that you want to support and

2:38 Speaker 2: raise the next generation, but in reality there's somebody in

2:41 Speaker 2: front of you, but you're not encouraging them, you're not

2:43 Speaker 2: giving them platform, you're not supporting them. So that can

2:47 Speaker 2: really hit you hard.

2:48 Speaker 4: No, John is so funny because when my case, right,

2:51 Speaker 4: my pastor from my previous church was actually praying for

2:57 Speaker 4: the say, next generation of work shippers to rise, or

3:01 Speaker 4: young people to rise, and to see a wave of

3:03 Speaker 4: revival and all of these things. And we were their

3:07 Speaker 4: answer to prayer. Okay, we were their answered prayer.

3:10 Speaker 3: Okay.

3:11 Speaker 4: Basically, whatever they prayed for, they were their answered prayer.

3:15 Speaker 4: This happened humans before I Iconic Worship started, okay, and

3:19 Speaker 4: even after I Whip started. Is the things they prayed for.

3:21 Speaker 4: So they they prayed for you. I well, they prayed

3:24 Speaker 4: for young worshipers to rise up. They pray for everything.

3:27 Speaker 4: But once God answers their own prayers, not anyone that

3:30 Speaker 4: prayers God answers their prayers as when you know, we

3:34 Speaker 4: faced all the backlash. You know, I was personally falsely

3:39 Speaker 4: remote from my church. Oh my goodness, okay, remote for

3:41 Speaker 4: my church. They stopped prayer group in my home. Okay,

3:45 Speaker 4: we had it for twelve years, oh shure, twelve years,

3:48 Speaker 4: no reason. The pastor just comes up to my dad

3:50 Speaker 4: likee this puts hold and on the shouldern and says,

3:53 Speaker 4: let's take a break. And in fact, you know when

3:56 Speaker 4: they opened it, we opened our home for the prayer group.

4:00 Speaker 3: Okay, it was when uh they were having it some

4:05 Speaker 3: of the place okay.

4:07 Speaker 4: And it is a part and complex and people were

4:11 Speaker 4: who came for the prayer group were being sent back home.

4:14 Speaker 4: Oh we have partner security. That's how bad and desciplince

4:17 Speaker 4: they were. And I remember we were also not enough

4:20 Speaker 4: financially well to do place. My parents didn't have money.

4:23 Speaker 4: To you and now provide snacks for people come into

4:27 Speaker 4: prayer group financial place per week is extremely a bit difficult.

4:31 Speaker 3: My dad.

4:32 Speaker 4: My dad didn't complain, he'd never complained. He had never

4:34 Speaker 4: said let's share the nothing. It is like I've taken

4:36 Speaker 4: up responsibility. I remember we had his old so f us.

4:39 Speaker 4: We were embarrassed to have them for prayer group people.

4:45 Speaker 4: But somehow again God gave us some new provision, new ideas,

4:48 Speaker 4: and all those things were fixed. From that place, we

4:51 Speaker 4: supported every Friday, most of the fridays, I would say

4:54 Speaker 4: ninety nine percent the fridays we were there. Okay, made

4:57 Speaker 4: sure all our vacations are planned.

5:00 Speaker 3: We have to be the group.

5:02 Speaker 4: Oh, this is how it's planned. And we did. What

5:05 Speaker 4: do you say, nothing wrong? All we did is follow

5:09 Speaker 4: God's called and you were removed. My sister serves in

5:13 Speaker 4: the cleaning department of the church. Okay, okay, I remember

5:17 Speaker 4: she from a very young age. She was shorter than

5:20 Speaker 4: the chair. Okay, you started and she grew taller than Okay.

5:25 Speaker 3: She was remote, you know.

5:28 Speaker 4: And the worst part is the way we were remote

5:30 Speaker 4: is over a phone call from a receptionist, not even

5:33 Speaker 4: like you know, having sit down, nothing and.

5:44 Speaker 3: What do you say? Uh?

5:45 Speaker 4: The even worst part is they can't tell that they

5:48 Speaker 4: removed as a iconic worship. It looks bad in their part. Yeah,

5:51 Speaker 4: they can't say, oh, they started iconic worship, so we remote. No,

5:54 Speaker 4: So they you know, put a lot of rumors, a

5:59 Speaker 4: lot of rumors online dad's reputation, on my sister's reputation,

6:02 Speaker 4: on my reputation, on my mother's reputation, so that you know,

6:07 Speaker 4: they can paint it off as that is the reason

6:10 Speaker 4: I get it. And and the worst part is the

6:14 Speaker 4: rumors and those things follow till today. Oh my goodness,

6:19 Speaker 4: my little sister on my dad on me, you know,

6:23 Speaker 4: and since it comes from one big pastor in Bangalore,

6:27 Speaker 4: you know, it's okay, They're like, can we believe him?

6:30 Speaker 4: Then I get very You're very young, You're very young,

6:35 Speaker 4: so of course it's very difficult.

6:37 Speaker 3: Of course, you know some a place you thought which

6:40 Speaker 3: was home, which was safe.

6:43 Speaker 4: And the worst part is there's one group which believes that,

6:46 Speaker 4: which takes that as granted. And also there but the

6:50 Speaker 4: brides said, this is God never leaves us on for

6:53 Speaker 4: saxss And you know, that's when.

6:57 Speaker 3: We had met. I had met Pasha Sami.

7:00 Speaker 4: Okay, the way he stands for us supports us encreaged.

7:04 Speaker 4: I'm not even a part of the church, but we

7:07 Speaker 4: had a stony one day fasting prayer which Past Sami asked.

7:09 Speaker 3: Us to do.

7:10 Speaker 4: Okay, because he's mentoring iconic worship and he's given the

7:14 Speaker 4: basement for almost follow on you one days.

7:16 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, just come.

7:18 Speaker 4: Use He's so happy and he allowed us to have

7:22 Speaker 4: iconic worship in the church. So while one side is

7:26 Speaker 4: always accusing and trying to bring you down, there's one

7:32 Speaker 4: side of people within the same God's ministry who will

7:36 Speaker 4: be there with you, will support you, you know, and they.

7:38 Speaker 3: Have no reason to support. Yeah.

7:40 Speaker 4: To be honest, there is no benefit, or there is

7:43 Speaker 4: logically even in a ministry point of view, there is

7:45 Speaker 4: no benefit, just the heart true.

7:48 Speaker 1: You know.

7:49 Speaker 4: The first iconic Worship, eighty percent of the musicians were

7:52 Speaker 4: from a PGG church.

7:54 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I met you through them, yes, FG church

7:58 Speaker 3: and from my church.

7:59 Speaker 4: I haven a musician.

8:00 Speaker 3: Oh okay, but my church had a problem if you

8:04 Speaker 3: did church.

8:05 Speaker 4: I think they needed a clarification, like what's happening? They informed,

8:07 Speaker 4: this is the ministry blah blah blah. I remember. I

8:10 Speaker 4: think the response from them from a few of memberss

8:13 Speaker 4: that is God's ministry. They can't stop, but only things.

8:16 Speaker 4: Make sure your commitments are yes aligned. You're committed to

8:19 Speaker 4: the church for that week, if you're aster for that week,

8:21 Speaker 4: make sure you don't miss on that. But you know,

8:26 Speaker 4: in fact, the one of the reasons why you have

8:28 Speaker 4: practice on Thursdays used to have practice on Fridays. The

8:32 Speaker 4: reason we have practice on Thursdays is because most of

8:35 Speaker 4: our musicians.

8:36 Speaker 3: Are from FGG and they go to ninety minutes with Jesus.

8:39 Speaker 3: Oh wow.

8:41 Speaker 4: So I'm like, if there is a church, you know,

8:44 Speaker 4: not causing any trouble, who's accommodative. I want to be accommodative. Yeah,

8:48 Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to make practice on Fridays.

8:50 Speaker 4: You know what, Let's do it on Thursdays. Practice on

8:52 Speaker 4: Thursdays because I want to accommodate you guys. You know,

8:55 Speaker 4: I don't want you to skip your ninety minutes with Jesus.

8:57 Speaker 4: I don't want to skip your church commitments. So we

8:59 Speaker 4: have does this you go to church Friday evenings?

9:02 Speaker 3: On to a church? So yeah, that's one.

9:08 Speaker 4: You know, I think I love about God's kin Tom itself,

9:10 Speaker 4: while there are people from the same place trying to

9:12 Speaker 4: bring you down, people who don't even.

9:15 Speaker 3: Know you actually support support. I'm not till today, I'm

9:18 Speaker 3: not a part of FGG church. I'm not a member.

9:20 Speaker 4: Okay, people assume because of the kind of love and

9:23 Speaker 4: support I get from the church. Yeah, everyone thinks that.

9:27 Speaker 4: But you know, like I keep saying, is always home.

9:31 Speaker 4: You know, every other church to get permotioned lout of

9:34 Speaker 4: letters and them. I understand, Yes, they have their product

9:39 Speaker 4: for a church. Pastor can I have this week in

9:44 Speaker 4: m His answer is sure, anything for you.

9:47 Speaker 3: Wow, you know so so good. That's does so helpful.

9:53 Speaker 2: So I was just as he was saying, I was

9:55 Speaker 2: reminded of how there's this revelation that God gave me

9:59 Speaker 2: about Joseph right, the cupparer who he invested in. He

10:04 Speaker 2: was someone within his control who was within his capacity,

10:10 Speaker 2: but he forgot about him. Right, he was within his contact,

10:13 Speaker 2: within his reach, but he forgot about him. Potifer was

10:16 Speaker 2: also within his reach, but he never cared about him.

10:19 Speaker 2: But we think about Pharaoh, who was beyond his reach.

10:22 Speaker 2: He was not even in his contacts, but he was

10:25 Speaker 2: the one who actually rescued us, rescued him and came

10:28 Speaker 2: to the next level of his destiny. So you never

10:31 Speaker 2: know from where health comes from.

10:34 Speaker 3: I was reminded.

10:34 Speaker 2: Even in Jeremiah, it talks about a moment when the

10:37 Speaker 2: king and the group they were so angry with Jeremiah

10:40 Speaker 2: they actually put him in a cistern like thing and

10:43 Speaker 2: he starts singing, and the only one who comes and

10:45 Speaker 2: helps him is actually a foreigner. It's not even anybody

10:50 Speaker 2: from the same faith. It's not even anybody from the

10:53 Speaker 2: same nation, but a foreigner of a different faith. So

10:56 Speaker 2: sometimes you never know where health comes from. You talked

11:00 Speaker 2: about past Sami. He is such a stweet person. I'm

11:03 Speaker 2: so grateful to him. He and actually I always say

11:07 Speaker 2: this when my ministry was just buddying and in the

11:10 Speaker 2: starting stage, I still remember when I was going to

11:13 Speaker 2: organize my first meeting. Uh, he gave my first, i

11:17 Speaker 2: think one of the first offerings to my ministry. Yeah,

11:20 Speaker 2: so I'm always grateful for that. Like, you know, I

11:22 Speaker 2: always remember, like that's the heart right that you can

11:26 Speaker 2: you can be a pastor of a mega church, but

11:30 Speaker 2: do you have the heart for the one in front

11:32 Speaker 2: of you? And that is so sweet because this church

11:35 Speaker 2: hurt can really hurt you. And a lot of people

11:39 Speaker 2: go away from God, go away from the things of

11:41 Speaker 2: the Lord because of church hurt. And I think we

11:44 Speaker 2: really need to talk about that aspect, like and drawing

11:47 Speaker 2: that you know you can't just because for me, I've

11:50 Speaker 2: gone through moments where the people who hurt me the

11:52 Speaker 2: most were actually sad to say this. But Christians, they said,

11:56 Speaker 2: I have a psychiatric problem, they said I have deep

11:58 Speaker 2: in purses, they said all sorts of things. You know.

12:02 Speaker 2: Even two weeks ago, I think one of my videos,

12:04 Speaker 2: I think it greats like thirty thousand years or something

12:07 Speaker 2: on Instagram one of those videos, and this particular person

12:11 Speaker 2: was like, and this bio on Instagram says, you know,

12:15 Speaker 2: child of the Most, like God, like very very you know,

12:18 Speaker 2: like Christiani.

12:20 Speaker 3: And he's like, oh yeah, such a moron.

12:22 Speaker 2: You're you know, you're something where dropped on your head

12:25 Speaker 2: and you have psychiatric problems, just like I mean, a

12:29 Speaker 2: normal person would be so hurt, they may never want

12:32 Speaker 2: to have anything to do with God. And I think

12:34 Speaker 2: that's one of the places where we need to remember. Yeah,

12:38 Speaker 2: so one of the biggest challenges that we face today

12:41 Speaker 2: is the element of church hurt. And so how can

12:46 Speaker 2: we do something to develop or make the culture in

12:50 Speaker 2: the church better that we don't hurt and chase people away.

12:54 Speaker 4: You know, especially what I've seen in at least bang

12:58 Speaker 4: culture of churches is they don't encourage collaboration. Everything has

13:05 Speaker 4: to be done under the ministration name. It's funny enough

13:09 Speaker 4: because the name of their church has to be lifted

13:12 Speaker 4: about the name of Jesus itself. And for example, even

13:16 Speaker 4: at my previous church, I would say that was the

13:19 Speaker 4: major reason. And it is not just me. There are

13:22 Speaker 4: at least so many people who have gone through the same.

13:25 Speaker 4: In fact, after I came out of the church, many

13:27 Speaker 4: people from that church hurt who've been removed because they

13:31 Speaker 4: wanted to, you know, help some other ministry or a

13:34 Speaker 4: new work, and their own callin for God had gone through.

13:39 Speaker 4: So they all came to me and they told those things.

13:42 Speaker 4: But what I would say is if pastors and leaders

13:48 Speaker 4: are very confident about their callin, they won't be any

13:53 Speaker 4: fear about any other people any other calling. True or

13:59 Speaker 4: when you think that when you're not confident about your

14:02 Speaker 4: own calling, when you're not confident about why God has

14:06 Speaker 4: called you, you might want to artificially hold that calling

14:12 Speaker 4: through these yeah, manipulation, manipulation and me thirty and stuff

14:16 Speaker 4: like that. And that's one major thing. That's a major,

14:20 Speaker 4: major thing.

14:21 Speaker 3: You know.

14:22 Speaker 4: I think every church, a lot of people are born,

14:24 Speaker 4: a lot of people are doing mystic talk to someone.

14:28 Speaker 4: They're like, I have this minister. But a part of

14:31 Speaker 4: this church. So if we can understand that. You know,

14:36 Speaker 4: when Jesus before he was crucified, he was making a

14:41 Speaker 4: prayer to the Father, and I think that's John chapter seventeen,

14:46 Speaker 4: and Jesus says, Father, let them be one as you

14:51 Speaker 4: and I are one. Is very intimately Jesus and Father

14:55 Speaker 4: are one, So let them be one. That these people

14:57 Speaker 4: be one as you and I are one. After that,

15:01 Speaker 4: fast forward, we have forty five thousandminations. Yeah, right, so

15:05 Speaker 4: within the denominational so within the same denomination church. Also

15:10 Speaker 4: there is flight, yes, so I get within churches in

15:13 Speaker 4: the same church also the other sure, you know, I

15:19 Speaker 4: think people just have to be secure. Yes, it's all

15:22 Speaker 4: of the church. Short is because of insecure leaders. Once

15:26 Speaker 4: you're insecure, that's when you are. You hurt people. True,

15:32 Speaker 4: you know, I think it dates back to bullies. Sorry

15:37 Speaker 4: to you know, use extreme examples, but if you look

15:40 Speaker 4: at bullies in high school, when they hurt other people,

15:44 Speaker 4: it's because they're insecure about something, they're struggling with something,

15:47 Speaker 4: they're facing their own insecurities. Secure people don't bully anybody. True,

15:52 Speaker 4: it's the insecure ones of bully other people. So similarly,

15:55 Speaker 4: there's bullying in church happening, and it's because of insecure leaders.

15:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's that's so true about being insecure and

16:04 Speaker 2: who you are.

16:04 Speaker 3: Like, you know, if.

16:07 Speaker 2: Saul was secure in the fact that he was the

16:09 Speaker 2: first king of Israel, he wouldn't be chasing after David. Right,

16:13 Speaker 2: A lot of people are missing their destiny because they're

16:16 Speaker 2: running chasing other things, right, Like, I think this is

16:20 Speaker 2: something that comes to all of us, right, Like even

16:22 Speaker 2: for me, I'll be honest before God, I say this,

16:26 Speaker 2: Like sometimes I struggle, like, oh gosh, you know, God,

16:29 Speaker 2: I'm spending so much of time over the years, I

16:31 Speaker 2: spent so much of time on money into like all

16:34 Speaker 2: of my videos from the beginning. I used to go

16:38 Speaker 2: to the studios and record because I was like, you know,

16:41 Speaker 2: the quality should be good and things like that, and like, God,

16:44 Speaker 2: I'm spending so much time, so much money. I want

16:46 Speaker 2: to start seeing the kind of results and I'm hoping

16:49 Speaker 2: for you know what I mean. Like, and sometimes it's

16:52 Speaker 2: so tempting to look at somebody else getting like oh

16:54 Speaker 2: they just started and they started on their phone and

16:56 Speaker 2: look at them, you know, like going viral. Then I

16:59 Speaker 2: had to come back to the place of God keep

17:02 Speaker 2: me secure, you know, like it's it. I've been jealous.

17:06 Speaker 2: Of course I have been jealous, and I always take

17:10 Speaker 2: that jealousy to God, you know what I mean, Like,

17:13 Speaker 2: and I think that's the thing that really makes the

17:16 Speaker 2: difference instead of acting like you know what, look at me,

17:20 Speaker 2: you know, like if the minute I still remember, I

17:23 Speaker 2: think there was this moment when I was going to

17:26 Speaker 2: organize some particular meeting and then I told this past

17:29 Speaker 2: a friend of mine and I said, can you post

17:31 Speaker 2: it on your church group? And then he said, go

17:34 Speaker 2: find your own audience. I'm like, I didn't even think

17:37 Speaker 2: of that angle. I'm not trying to forge your audience,

17:39 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like or your congregation, because

17:41 Speaker 2: I always believe it this way, right like everybody has

17:45 Speaker 2: a separate gift. Now iconic worship. You guys have something

17:50 Speaker 2: to give something different. I have something that's unique and different.

17:53 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that revelations part, you know,

17:56 Speaker 2: like if you say, you know, if I always say this, like,

17:59 Speaker 2: you know, if you have headache, you will go and

18:02 Speaker 2: take something like a paracetamol, right like, and if you

18:05 Speaker 2: have stomach pan, you want to take something else. So

18:08 Speaker 2: if you feel really discouraging or discouraged, and you know

18:12 Speaker 2: you really need encouragement, you would listen to somebody like

18:14 Speaker 2: Pasta Joel Ostein. You know, if you want to learn

18:16 Speaker 2: something about healing, you go and listen to somebody like

18:18 Speaker 2: Benny Hin. So likewise, everybody has something to offer. We

18:23 Speaker 2: are not here trying to compete with someone else. We

18:26 Speaker 2: are here to team up with other people.

18:29 Speaker 3: And I really.

18:30 Speaker 2: Really wish ministers would get that into this spirit. I'm

18:34 Speaker 2: not here to compete with somebody. Sometimes, you know, I

18:36 Speaker 2: go and preach in some places, and I have a

18:39 Speaker 2: medium ministry, so sometimes just putting a video clip from

18:42 Speaker 2: a different location, you know, generates more views. It helps

18:45 Speaker 2: in reaching people. People just want to check out what

18:47 Speaker 2: it is. And sometimes they don't want to give that video,

18:51 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, am I going to

18:54 Speaker 2: build a mansion with that video? No?

18:57 Speaker 3: You know, I.

18:57 Speaker 2: Really wish, you know, ministries and fast as would get

19:02 Speaker 2: into that place of maturity. Ask Christians also, you know

19:06 Speaker 2: that we would realize that we're all in the same team.

19:09 Speaker 2: You know, you know, we shouldn't be fighting against each other,

19:13 Speaker 2: but rather, you know, going together.

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