Church Hurt & Disappointments | John Giftah | Vivian Williams (Iconic Worship) Interview (Part 4)

0:01 Speaker 1: Do you ever look around and think, Wow, the world is a crazy place and it just seems to get crazier and crazier. Ease your mind and take a break. This is Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. We're a hub for inspirational Christian sermons, practical keys for Christian living, and Christian discussions and interviews. You'll be inspired to live the life that you were created for. Your host is a top ranking podcaster, best selling author, world record holder, aerospace engineer, life coach, evangelist, and founder of John Gifta International.

0:41 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta.

0:49 Speaker 2: Since you're talking about people and this mindset, I mean even I've faced a lot of geologically, people have attacked because, like I said, there are a sessionists who don't believe in gifts. The spirit God uses me in all of those things. I've been attacked. There are people who attack. No matter what you do, people are going to criticize you, and at the same time you face a lot of discouragement like being a budding minister of God. Right, this is my thirteenth year of ministry that has started from college days, and the truth of the matter is you would really expect somebody to encourage you and support you, but for the most part, it doesn't happen that way.

1:29 Speaker 3: It's more of discouragement.

1:30 Speaker 2: I still remember there was a time I paid a huge price to go because back in the day, like even from family, it was a huge struggle for me, like a big sacrifice on my part to do the ministry. I respective of all of that. So I go all the way to this particular place to preach. I had spoken to this past of the day before and all of that, and he had canceled the meeting, and he didn't even have the courtesy to let me know I'm going, and trying to call him, he's not picking up a call and a mutual friend where should I parked the vehicle, and they said, sorry, the meeting is canceled.

2:03 Speaker 2: Like I was heartbroken, because you just you know, you're in the place where sometimes one of the most irritating things I've seen I'm not taking a job on a particular person. Now, I'm not criticising anybody in particlub, but I've seen people say, you know, we are here for the next generation. We want to raise the next generation of leaders, and we want to support the next generation. But when you actually meet them and say, you know, I'm from the next generation and I'm doing this, let's collaborate, let's do something, they're so cold faced.

2:33 Speaker 3: I'm like, there's a night and day difference between what.

2:35 Speaker 2: You share on stage that you want to support and raise the next generation, but in reality there's somebody in front of you, but you're not encouraging them, you're not giving them platform, you're not supporting them. So that can really hit you hard.

2:48 Speaker 4: No, John is so funny because when my case, right, my pastor from my previous church was actually praying for the say, next generation of work shippers to rise, or young people to rise, and to see a wave of revival and all of these things. And we were their answer to prayer. Okay, we were their answered prayer.

3:10 Speaker 3: Okay.

3:11 Speaker 4: Basically, whatever they prayed for, they were their answered prayer. This happened humans before I Iconic Worship started, okay, and even after I Whip started. Is the things they prayed for. So they they prayed for you. I well, they prayed for young worshipers to rise up. They pray for everything. But once God answers their own prayers, not anyone that prayers God answers their prayers as when you know, we faced all the backlash. You know, I was personally falsely remote from my church. Oh my goodness, okay, remote for my church.

3:42 Speaker 4: They stopped prayer group in my home. Okay, we had it for twelve years, oh shure, twelve years, no reason. The pastor just comes up to my dad likee this puts hold and on the shouldern and says, let's take a break. And in fact, you know when they opened it, we opened our home for the prayer group.

4:00 Speaker 3: Okay, it was when uh they were having it some of the place okay.

4:07 Speaker 4: And it is a part and complex and people were who came for the prayer group were being sent back home. Oh we have partner security. That's how bad and desciplince they were. And I remember we were also not enough financially well to do place. My parents didn't have money. To you and now provide snacks for people come into prayer group financial place per week is extremely a bit difficult.

4:31 Speaker 3: My dad.

4:32 Speaker 4: My dad didn't complain, he'd never complained. He had never said let's share the nothing. It is like I've taken up responsibility. I remember we had his old so f us. We were embarrassed to have them for prayer group people. But somehow again God gave us some new provision, new ideas, and all those things were fixed. From that place, we supported every Friday, most of the fridays, I would say ninety nine percent the fridays we were there. Okay, made sure all our vacations are planned.

5:00 Speaker 3: We have to be the group.

5:02 Speaker 4: Oh, this is how it's planned. And we did. What do you say, nothing wrong? All we did is follow God's called and you were removed. My sister serves in the cleaning department of the church. Okay, okay, I remember she from a very young age. She was shorter than the chair. Okay, you started and she grew taller than Okay.

5:25 Speaker 3: She was remote, you know.

5:28 Speaker 4: And the worst part is the way we were remote is over a phone call from a receptionist, not even like you know, having sit down, nothing and.

5:44 Speaker 3: What do you say? Uh?

5:45 Speaker 4: The even worst part is they can't tell that they removed as a iconic worship. It looks bad in their part. Yeah, they can't say, oh, they started iconic worship, so we remote. No, So they you know, put a lot of rumors, a lot of rumors online dad's reputation, on my sister's reputation, on my reputation, on my mother's reputation, so that you know, they can paint it off as that is the reason I get it. And and the worst part is the rumors and those things follow till today. Oh my goodness, my little sister on my dad on me, you know, and since it comes from one big pastor in Bangalore, you know, it's okay, They're like, can we believe him?

6:30 Speaker 4: Then I get very You're very young, You're very young, so of course it's very difficult.

6:37 Speaker 3: Of course, you know some a place you thought which was home, which was safe.

6:43 Speaker 4: And the worst part is there's one group which believes that, which takes that as granted. And also there but the brides said, this is God never leaves us on for saxss And you know, that's when.

6:57 Speaker 3: We had met. I had met Pasha Sami.

7:00 Speaker 4: Okay, the way he stands for us supports us encreaged. I'm not even a part of the church, but we had a stony one day fasting prayer which Past Sami asked.

7:09 Speaker 3: Us to do.

7:10 Speaker 4: Okay, because he's mentoring iconic worship and he's given the basement for almost follow on you one days.

7:16 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, just come.

7:18 Speaker 4: Use He's so happy and he allowed us to have iconic worship in the church. So while one side is always accusing and trying to bring you down, there's one side of people within the same God's ministry who will be there with you, will support you, you know, and they.

7:38 Speaker 3: Have no reason to support. Yeah.

7:40 Speaker 4: To be honest, there is no benefit, or there is logically even in a ministry point of view, there is no benefit, just the heart true.

7:48 Speaker 1: You know.

7:49 Speaker 4: The first iconic Worship, eighty percent of the musicians were from a PGG church.

7:54 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I met you through them, yes, FG church and from my church.

7:59 Speaker 4: I haven a musician.

8:00 Speaker 3: Oh okay, but my church had a problem if you did church.

8:05 Speaker 4: I think they needed a clarification, like what's happening? They informed, this is the ministry blah blah blah. I remember. I think the response from them from a few of memberss that is God's ministry. They can't stop, but only things. Make sure your commitments are yes aligned. You're committed to the church for that week, if you're aster for that week, make sure you don't miss on that. But you know, in fact, the one of the reasons why you have practice on Thursdays used to have practice on Fridays.

8:32 Speaker 4: The reason we have practice on Thursdays is because most of our musicians.

8:36 Speaker 3: Are from FGG and they go to ninety minutes with Jesus. Oh wow.

8:41 Speaker 4: So I'm like, if there is a church, you know, not causing any trouble, who's accommodative. I want to be accommodative. Yeah, you know, I don't want to make practice on Fridays. You know what, Let's do it on Thursdays. Practice on Thursdays because I want to accommodate you guys. You know, I don't want you to skip your ninety minutes with Jesus. I don't want to skip your church commitments. So we have does this you go to church Friday evenings?

9:02 Speaker 3: On to a church? So yeah, that's one.

9:08 Speaker 4: You know, I think I love about God's kin Tom itself, while there are people from the same place trying to bring you down, people who don't even.

9:15 Speaker 3: Know you actually support support. I'm not till today, I'm not a part of FGG church. I'm not a member.

9:20 Speaker 4: Okay, people assume because of the kind of love and support I get from the church. Yeah, everyone thinks that. But you know, like I keep saying, is always home. You know, every other church to get permotioned lout of letters and them. I understand, Yes, they have their product for a church. Pastor can I have this week in m His answer is sure, anything for you.

9:47 Speaker 3: Wow, you know so so good. That's does so helpful.

9:53 Speaker 2: So I was just as he was saying, I was reminded of how there's this revelation that God gave me about Joseph right, the cupparer who he invested in. He was someone within his control who was within his capacity, but he forgot about him. Right, he was within his contact, within his reach, but he forgot about him. Potifer was also within his reach, but he never cared about him. But we think about Pharaoh, who was beyond his reach. He was not even in his contacts, but he was the one who actually rescued us, rescued him and came to the next level of his destiny.

10:30 Speaker 2: So you never know from where health comes from.

10:34 Speaker 3: I was reminded.

10:34 Speaker 2: Even in Jeremiah, it talks about a moment when the king and the group they were so angry with Jeremiah they actually put him in a cistern like thing and he starts singing, and the only one who comes and helps him is actually a foreigner. It's not even anybody from the same faith. It's not even anybody from the same nation, but a foreigner of a different faith. So sometimes you never know where health comes from. You talked about past Sami. He is such a stweet person. I'm so grateful to him. He and actually I always say this when my ministry was just buddying and in the starting stage, I still remember when I was going to organize my first meeting.

11:15 Speaker 2: Uh, he gave my first, i think one of the first offerings to my ministry. Yeah, so I'm always grateful for that. Like, you know, I always remember, like that's the heart right that you can you can be a pastor of a mega church, but do you have the heart for the one in front of you? And that is so sweet because this church hurt can really hurt you. And a lot of people go away from God, go away from the things of the Lord because of church hurt. And I think we really need to talk about that aspect, like and drawing that you know you can't just because for me, I've gone through moments where the people who hurt me the most were actually sad to say this.

11:54 Speaker 2: But Christians, they said, I have a psychiatric problem, they said I have deep in purses, they said all sorts of things. You know. Even two weeks ago, I think one of my videos, I think it greats like thirty thousand years or something on Instagram one of those videos, and this particular person was like, and this bio on Instagram says, you know, child of the Most, like God, like very very you know, like Christiani.

12:20 Speaker 3: And he's like, oh yeah, such a moron.

12:22 Speaker 2: You're you know, you're something where dropped on your head and you have psychiatric problems, just like I mean, a normal person would be so hurt, they may never want to have anything to do with God. And I think that's one of the places where we need to remember. Yeah, so one of the biggest challenges that we face today is the element of church hurt. And so how can we do something to develop or make the culture in the church better that we don't hurt and chase people away.

12:54 Speaker 4: You know, especially what I've seen in at least bang culture of churches is they don't encourage collaboration. Everything has to be done under the ministration name. It's funny enough because the name of their church has to be lifted about the name of Jesus itself. And for example, even at my previous church, I would say that was the major reason. And it is not just me. There are at least so many people who have gone through the same. In fact, after I came out of the church, many people from that church hurt who've been removed because they wanted to, you know, help some other ministry or a new work, and their own callin for God had gone through.

13:39 Speaker 4: So they all came to me and they told those things. But what I would say is if pastors and leaders are very confident about their callin, they won't be any fear about any other people any other calling. True or when you think that when you're not confident about your own calling, when you're not confident about why God has called you, you might want to artificially hold that calling through these yeah, manipulation, manipulation and me thirty and stuff like that. And that's one major thing. That's a major, major thing.

14:21 Speaker 3: You know.

14:22 Speaker 4: I think every church, a lot of people are born, a lot of people are doing mystic talk to someone. They're like, I have this minister. But a part of this church. So if we can understand that. You know, when Jesus before he was crucified, he was making a prayer to the Father, and I think that's John chapter seventeen, and Jesus says, Father, let them be one as you and I are one. Is very intimately Jesus and Father are one, So let them be one. That these people be one as you and I are one. After that, fast forward, we have forty five thousandminations.

15:04 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, so within the denominational so within the same denomination church. Also there is flight, yes, so I get within churches in the same church also the other sure, you know, I think people just have to be secure. Yes, it's all of the church. Short is because of insecure leaders. Once you're insecure, that's when you are. You hurt people. True, you know, I think it dates back to bullies. Sorry to you know, use extreme examples, but if you look at bullies in high school, when they hurt other people, it's because they're insecure about something, they're struggling with something, they're facing their own insecurities.

15:50 Speaker 4: Secure people don't bully anybody. True, it's the insecure ones of bully other people. So similarly, there's bullying in church happening, and it's because of insecure leaders.

15:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's that's so true about being insecure and who you are.

16:04 Speaker 3: Like, you know, if.

16:07 Speaker 2: Saul was secure in the fact that he was the first king of Israel, he wouldn't be chasing after David. Right, A lot of people are missing their destiny because they're running chasing other things, right, Like, I think this is something that comes to all of us, right, Like even for me, I'll be honest before God, I say this, Like sometimes I struggle, like, oh gosh, you know, God, I'm spending so much of time over the years, I spent so much of time on money into like all of my videos from the beginning.

16:37 Speaker 2: I used to go to the studios and record because I was like, you know, the quality should be good and things like that, and like, God, I'm spending so much time, so much money. I want to start seeing the kind of results and I'm hoping for you know what I mean. Like, and sometimes it's so tempting to look at somebody else getting like oh they just started and they started on their phone and look at them, you know, like going viral. Then I had to come back to the place of God keep me secure, you know, like it's it.

17:04 Speaker 2: I've been jealous. Of course I have been jealous, and I always take that jealousy to God, you know what I mean, Like, and I think that's the thing that really makes the difference instead of acting like you know what, look at me, you know, like if the minute I still remember, I think there was this moment when I was going to organize some particular meeting and then I told this past a friend of mine and I said, can you post it on your church group? And then he said, go find your own audience. I'm like, I didn't even think of that angle.

17:37 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to forge your audience, you know what I mean, like or your congregation, because I always believe it this way, right like everybody has a separate gift. Now iconic worship. You guys have something to give something different. I have something that's unique and different. We're going to talk about that revelations part, you know, like if you say, you know, if I always say this, like, you know, if you have headache, you will go and take something like a paracetamol, right like, and if you have stomach pan, you want to take something else.

18:07 Speaker 2: So if you feel really discouraging or discouraged, and you know you really need encouragement, you would listen to somebody like Pasta Joel Ostein. You know, if you want to learn something about healing, you go and listen to somebody like Benny Hin. So likewise, everybody has something to offer. We are not here trying to compete with someone else. We are here to team up with other people.

18:29 Speaker 3: And I really.

18:30 Speaker 2: Really wish ministers would get that into this spirit. I'm not here to compete with somebody. Sometimes, you know, I go and preach in some places, and I have a medium ministry, so sometimes just putting a video clip from a different location, you know, generates more views. It helps in reaching people. People just want to check out what it is. And sometimes they don't want to give that video, you know what I mean, Like, am I going to build a mansion with that video? No?

18:57 Speaker 3: You know, I.

18:57 Speaker 2: Really wish, you know, ministries and fast as would get into that place of maturity. Ask Christians also, you know that we would realize that we're all in the same team. You know, you know, we shouldn't be fighting against each other, but rather, you know, going together.

19:16 Speaker 1: You've been listening to fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. We hope you were blessed and inspired to live the life that God has for you. Make sure to subscribe to the John Gifta YouTube channel for regular uploads of sermons, skits, interviews and more. Follow John Gifta on Instagram for regular inspirational posts, and don't forget to check out the best selling books written by John Gifta, Who Am I which will help you understand your identity and the latest number one best seller Unveil your Purpose, helping you discover your purpose and to start walking in it.

19:50 Speaker 1: Make sure to leave a rating and review, and be sure to share it with your friends and loved ones. If you'd like to donate, you can find the PayPal link in the description, and if you'd like to John Gifta to speak at your event or to get more details, go to the website at www dot John gifted dot com. See you on the next episode of The Fuel for the Soul with John Gifta. God bless you